Who invented the Slider

someblokedave · 12-11-2010, 01:25 PM

Who invented the slider (Wrist spinners version)? Or where and when is it first described in any text? The earliest version I can find is relatively new and that's Peter Philpotts description of it in his book 'The art of Wrist Spin Bowling'.

smalishah84 · 13-11-2010, 12:32 AM

The only time I ever heard about it was from Richie Benaud when Shane Warne got some English batsman out LBW with a straighter one in 2005 Ashes. Last year Warne said he was trying for the big leg break but the ball didn't spin at all and just went straight and everybody thought it was the slider....lol

ringo1968 · 13-11-2010, 03:51 AM

Mr Clarrie Grimmett who i believe was an aussie. Or a Kiwi who moved to Australia anyway.

Prince EWS · 13-11-2010, 09:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by smalishah84

The only time I ever heard about it was from Richie Benaud when Shane Warne got some English batsman out LBW with a straighter one in 2005 Ashes. Last year Warne said he was trying for the big leg break but the ball didn't spin at all and just went straight and everybody thought it was the slider....lol

Haha yeah I reckon Benaud knew it too. Spinners Union and all.

someblokedave · 15-11-2010, 03:56 PM

It's a tricky one this one because it does seem that there's the potential for a handful of back-spinners to all get lablelled with the same name. There's only a few books on the matter Grimmetts and Philpotts that actually go so far as to describing and assigning names to the deliveries.

In 1930 Grimmett in 'Getting Wickets' explicitly describes 3 wrist spin variations - Leg Break, Wrong Un and Top Spinners, but then fails to recognise or chooses to keep secret any back-spinner. In the same book in the same chapter by way of explaining how to test the theory of moving the wrist to produce all 4 - Top, leg, off and back-spin he describes the 4 different Flipper variations for the first time and in doing so places himself as the inventor of all four Flipper variations. But nowhere does he describe a Wrist Spinners 'Back-Spinner'.

Philpott as late as 1995 in The Art of Wrist Spin Bowling explains the 'Orthodox Back Spinner' which is the stable mate of all the other Wrist Spinners deliveries e.g. it uses the wrist and the 3rd finger to impart the spin out of the back of the hand. He says that Benaud used this delivery and others.

Philpott at no point refers to his back-spinner as a 'Slider' or a 'Zooter'.

As far as I can make out -

1. Zooter - is a ball that comes out of the front of the hand with little or no spin and its nearest rival is the knuckle ball and may be more akin to Baseball deliveries as Aussie cricket players play baseball in the off-season
2. The Orthodox Back-Spinner is the real deal with the big flick off of the 3rd finger and comes out of the back of the hand.
3.The Flipper is the finger click technique which is often mistaken for a 'Slider'
4. Is the bastardised back spinner where the fingers are rolled down the back of the ball using the wrist spinners grip cross seam producing a scrambled seam.

So which ones a Slider and which ones a Zooter?

vic_orthdox · 15-11-2010, 08:39 PM

The zooter is where you thrust the wrist forward at delivery, the bottom of your palm pushing towards the batsman which puts backspin on it. Generally the slider is a flatter side spinner, which generally doesn't grip on most non-subcontinental surfaces and slides straight on; occassionally it will catch the seam and spin.

The zooter has genuine backspin, and acts like a less lethal version of the flipper, whereas the slider is disguised as though it is a leg-spinner, and is a lot more subtle.

Burgey · 16-11-2010, 07:35 PM

I invented it. Was a Tuesday in 1986.

smalishah84 · 17-11-2010, 05:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Burgey

I invented it. Was a Tuesday in 1986.

smalishah84 · 17-11-2010, 05:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Prince EWS

Haha yeah I reckon Benaud knew it too. Spinners Union and all.

With Benaud you can't really tell what's on his mind. After all he has witnessed over 500 test matches. That is more than a quarter of the test matches ever played

Burgey · 17-11-2010, 03:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by smalishah84

With Benaud you can't really tell what's on his mind. After all he has witnessed over 500 test matches. That is more than a quarter of the test matches ever played

That's actually astonishing, isn't it? I mean, no one sees it all, but he's closest. Amazing.

12-11-2010, 01:25 PM	#1 (permalink)
someblokedave School Boy/Girl Cricketer Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Essex, England Posts: 74	Who invented the Slider Who invented the slider (Wrist spinners version)? Or where and when is it first described in any text? The earliest version I can find is relatively new and that's Peter Philpotts description of it in his book 'The art of Wrist Spin Bowling'. __________________ http://spinbowling-wrongun.blogspot.com/ http://spinbowling-legbreak.blogspot.com/ http://spinbowling-flipper.blogspot.com/

15-11-2010, 03:56 PM	#5 (permalink)
someblokedave School Boy/Girl Cricketer Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Essex, England Posts: 74	It's a tricky one this one because it does seem that there's the potential for a handful of back-spinners to all get lablelled with the same name. There's only a few books on the matter Grimmetts and Philpotts that actually go so far as to describing and assigning names to the deliveries. In 1930 Grimmett in 'Getting Wickets' explicitly describes 3 wrist spin variations - Leg Break, Wrong Un and Top Spinners, but then fails to recognise or chooses to keep secret any back-spinner. In the same book in the same chapter by way of explaining how to test the theory of moving the wrist to produce all 4 - Top, leg, off and back-spin he describes the 4 different Flipper variations for the first time and in doing so places himself as the inventor of all four Flipper variations. But nowhere does he describe a Wrist Spinners 'Back-Spinner'. Philpott as late as 1995 in The Art of Wrist Spin Bowling explains the 'Orthodox Back Spinner' which is the stable mate of all the other Wrist Spinners deliveries e.g. it uses the wrist and the 3rd finger to impart the spin out of the back of the hand. He says that Benaud used this delivery and others. Philpott at no point refers to his back-spinner as a 'Slider' or a 'Zooter'. As far as I can make out - 1. Zooter - is a ball that comes out of the front of the hand with little or no spin and its nearest rival is the knuckle ball and may be more akin to Baseball deliveries as Aussie cricket players play baseball in the off-season 2. The Orthodox Back-Spinner is the real deal with the big flick off of the 3rd finger and comes out of the back of the hand. 3.The Flipper is the finger click technique which is often mistaken for a 'Slider' 4. Is the bastardised back spinner where the fingers are rolled down the back of the ball using the wrist spinners grip cross seam producing a scrambled seam. So which ones a Slider and which ones a Zooter? Last edited by someblokedave; 15-11-2010 at 03:58 PM.

16-11-2010, 07:35 PM	#7 (permalink)
Burgey Cricket Web Staff Member Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: The Castle Posts: 35,154	I invented it. Was a Tuesday in 1986. __________________ WWCC - Loyaulte Mi Lie "People make me happy.. not places.. people" "When a man is tired of London, he is tired of life." - Samuel Johnson "Oh my God, there's a castle! A castle!"

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13-11-2010, 12:32 AM	#2 (permalink)
smalishah84 Hall of Fame Member Join Date: Aug 2010 Location: dxb Posts: 18,862	The only time I ever heard about it was from Richie Benaud when Shane Warne got some English batsman out LBW with a straighter one in 2005 Ashes. Last year Warne said he was trying for the big leg break but the ball didn't spin at all and just went straight and everybody thought it was the slider....lol

13-11-2010, 03:51 AM	#3 (permalink)
ringo1968 Cricket Spectator Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: london Posts: 22	Mr Clarrie Grimmett who i believe was an aussie. Or a Kiwi who moved to Australia anyway.

15-11-2010, 08:39 PM	#6 (permalink)
vic_orthdox Global Moderator Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Melbourne, Australia Posts: 24,370	The zooter is where you thrust the wrist forward at delivery, the bottom of your palm pushing towards the batsman which puts backspin on it. Generally the slider is a flatter side spinner, which generally doesn't grip on most non-subcontinental surfaces and slides straight on; occassionally it will catch the seam and spin. The zooter has genuine backspin, and acts like a less lethal version of the flipper, whereas the slider is disguised as though it is a leg-spinner, and is a lot more subtle.

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