Leg spin bowling

[Flem274*]

Hmm, just wondering, should i have a plan B?

Atm all I do is flight it up full and try to make it turn as much as I can. I throw in the odd straighter ball or one that goes the other way.

Should I have a few different ideas? I haven't played any club cricket yet, gonna hunt one down when I go back to uni. I'm not sure what to expect from batsmen in a game situation.

 

[stephen]

Hmm, just wondering, should i have a plan B?

Atm all I do is flight it up full and try to make it turn as much as I can. I throw in the odd straighter ball or one that goes the other way.

Should I have a few different ideas? I haven't played any club cricket yet, gonna hunt one down when I go back to uni. I'm not sure what to expect from batsmen in a game situation.

From what the guys were telling me the other day, consistency will take more wickets than anything else, particularly when you're starting out. To dismiss higher class batsmen though you need to develop some form of variation. If, like me, you're just starting out then practice landing the ball in the right areas all the time.

Someone told me recently something which I found very insightful:
Amateurs practice until they get something right, professionals practice until they don't make mistakes.

 

[vic_orthdox]

Hmm, just wondering, should i have a plan B?

Atm all I do is flight it up full and try to make it turn as much as I can. I throw in the odd straighter ball or one that goes the other way.

Should I have a few different ideas? I haven't played any club cricket yet, gonna hunt one down when I go back to uni. I'm not sure what to expect from batsmen in a game situation.

The best variations are the subtle ones. Try to be able to bowl heaps of different varieties of your stock ball. Things that you can change are the pace of it, where you deliver it from, more sidespin or overspin. Mastering those things are more important than your flipper/wrong'un/etc.

 

[Julian87]

Best leg spin coach I ever had fixed my bowling so much it wasn't funny. Was worried about bowling too slow as I went up the grades but what he said was right imo (unless yr bowling absolute lollipops). The pace through the air is fine, it can be slow, but you need the ball to zip off the wicket. Overspin helps this zip and I found that your action and rip through the crease helps this immensely. Front arm and back hip should never be ignored and still if I am ever a bit flat at the crease in the game I make a deliberate effort to get those things right and I generally start bowling better again.

 

[stephen]

Best leg spin coach I ever had fixed my bowling so much it wasn't funny. Was worried about bowling too slow as I went up the grades but what he said was right imo (unless yr bowling absolute lollipops). The pace through the air is fine, it can be slow, but you need the ball to zip off the wicket. Overspin helps this zip and I found that your action and rip through the crease helps this immensely. Front arm and back hip should never be ignored and still if I am ever a bit flat at the crease in the game I make a deliberate effort to get those things right and I generally start bowling better again.

I'd love a good legspin coach.

Every coach I had in juniors was terrible as far as spin was concerned.

The closest I had to a good spin coach was when I went to a Trevor Barsby clinic, and the only advice he had was to stop collapsing on my front leg.

So I'm mainly self taught, which is a shame. I think a couple of hours with Warney and I would improve a hundred fold.

 

[Flem274*]

Best leg spin coach I ever had fixed my bowling so much it wasn't funny. Was worried about bowling too slow as I went up the grades but what he said was right imo (unless yr bowling absolute lollipops). The pace through the air is fine, it can be slow, but you need the ball to zip off the wicket. Overspin helps this zip and I found that your action and rip through the crease helps this immensely. Front arm and back hip should never be ignored and still if I am ever a bit flat at the crease in the game I make a deliberate effort to get those things right and I generally start bowling better again.

Interesting. I bowl on a concrete driveway with a very old worn hardball and i get quite a bit of bounce and the ball quickens on pitching. Its concrete though, not a pitch. Still, I like the sound of it and its fun to watch.

 

[Julian87]

I'd love a good legspin coach.

Every coach I had in juniors was terrible as far as spin was concerned.

The closest I had to a good spin coach was when I went to a Trevor Barsby clinic, and the only advice he had was to stop collapsing on my front leg.

So I'm mainly self taught, which is a shame. I think a couple of hours with Warney and I would improve a hundred fold.

From what I have seen, the vast majority of spinners are self taught. You may pick up the basics off an amateur or level 1 coach at an early age but after that there is no real in between spin coaching. Cousins of mine and blokes I played with used to go to all of the clinics and what not, but most kids simply wouldn't have been able to afford it.

I went to Sydney straight after yr 12 and luckily walked into a club where the first grade captain is also an excellent batting and specifically leg spin bowling coach. I hadn't played extremely high levels of cricket but I'd played pretty competitively in Northern Country and what not and even then the coaching was almost solely game plans, fielding drills and net sessions. I improved with every session with him and he improved my younger brother's leg spin as ell. Those top notch coaches just pick up things that the generic level 2 coaches miss out on.

Another exercise I have seen help a lot of wrist spinners is a couple of step run up with one of those little hurdle/training step things placed just before delivery stride. Helps your back leg get up and through during delivery. Once you've got someone there slowing down your whole action it helps immensely.

 

[Julian87]

Interesting. I bowl on a concrete driveway with a very old worn hardball and i get quite a bit of bounce and the ball quickens on pitching. Its concrete though, not a pitch. Still, I like the sound of it and its fun to watch.

Well once you start playing on some lower grade turf wickets they can be absolutely dead and really slow. Many spin a mile but unless it is quick/ripping spin it oft doesn't matter.

 

[Jim2109]

I'd love a good legspin coach.

Every coach I had in juniors was terrible as far as spin was concerned.

The closest I had to a good spin coach was when I went to a Trevor Barsby clinic, and the only advice he had was to stop collapsing on my front leg.

So I'm mainly self taught, which is a shame. I think a couple of hours with Warney and I would improve a hundred fold.

i was beginning to wonder if there was anyone good out there for leg spin coaching advice. ive been self-teaching since taking it up last year, plus discussing my action on internet forums and youtube. which has always brought up ideas, some which worked, some which didnt. you dont necessarily need a coach so long as you can analyse yourself. video helps a great deal.

however, last week i was at the nets (in the snow lol) practicing, and one of the clubs juniors coaches was there with his son practicing. and he gave me some advice on my action which seems like it may be absolutely spot on. i think there are certain aspects of a leg spinner that cant really be coached (everyone is different, so its hard to coach it from scratch), but a good coach can still spot flaws in an action, and advise on them (in my case my natural line is leg side, and the advice was about my feet and hip alignment at the point of delivery, which is too focussed to the leg side, hence the ball going there). i dont agree with coaches trying to specifically change things though. but it depends on the person. when you listen to Shane Warne talking to youngsters (e.g. Steve Smith for AUS), he never tells them "this is what you should do", merely "try doing this, or try doing that, this is what worked for me, etc". ultimately youve got to adapt the advice to fit your own natural action. whereas with batting and seam bowling things are a little more clear cut.

watch someone like Clarrie Grimmett, and if he was being coached nowadays he would get told to change just about everything in his action. but he is still arguably in the top 2 leg spinners of all time, along with Warne.

ultimately though you dont need coaching provided you can identify problems in your own bowling, and try out solutions. there is an excellent wrist spin thread on another forum where i have basically learnt everything i know thus far. without that my progress would be nowhere near as quick.

 

[stephen]

Thanks for the thoughts. I am really missing being able to get down to the nets - it's been raining all week up here in Brisbane. I figure that until I get some more game experience, I'm going to stick with just bowling the leg break.

I have noticed that a few of my leg breaks are rearing up off a length and surprising even very good batsmen. This is on concrete/gabbagrass pitches as well, so I am going to assume that I'm hitting the seam on a regular basis. I can see that particular variation being extremely effective in game situations too. When I say rearing up, I mean pitching normally and ending up around shoulder height. Obviously on turf I would never get that bounce, but what extra bounce I do get from that could be very useful anyway.

 

[ringo1968]

It's not going to happen quick or be easy, it's a case of practice, practice and more practice. What you might want to try is bowling without a batsman there, it's a lot less demoralising. The thing you've basically got to do is turn your wrist anti-clockwise in order that your thumb is facing the batsman at the point of release. It may also help to look at how round arm you are in your delivery - try and get your arm up more vertically, that may be worth exploring as well?

Yes- you are bang on about bowling in an empty net, i always find batsmen are trying to hit me into the fields bowling leg spin !! I can bowl a pretty good leg break and am working on a flipper for variation- it sometimes comes back a little or gos straight on. I lack any flexibility to bowl a googly- just comes out as a leg break !!!

 

[someblokedave]

Yes- you are bang on about bowling in an empty net, i always find batsmen are trying to hit me into the fields bowling leg spin !! I can bowl a pretty good leg break and am working on a flipper for variation- it sometimes comes back a little or gos straight on. I lack any flexibility to bowl a googly- just comes out as a leg break !!!

Yeah the Wrong un is a difficult ball to get sussed, the logical conclusion is to practice it loads and it will come. The thing is as Grimmett comments in his books the Wrong Un as a delivery is in fact a far more natural way to bowl and he cites Tiger O'Reilly as being a better bowler than he was because O'Reillys bowling was faster. You might find that if you bowl the Wrong Un and it starts to come together you'll be really enthused at how suddenly you'll see glimpses of big turn off the wicket and it'll draw you in and encourage you to practice more and bit by bit you'll become mesmerised. The only thing is - while that's happening you'll almost be guaranteed to be losing the ability to bowl your leg-break (The Googly Syndrome). Then you'll face a massive up-hill struggle to get your leg break back.

With regards the flexibility - yeah you're right I went through a lot of pain and might have got quite close to damaging my rotator cuff over the couple of months I spent getting it sussed. With the Wrong Un as well I produce a massive flick that reverberates right through the shoulder and felt like my arm was almost being dislocated from the shoulder joint!!! But hey! This is wrist spin and it is the most difficult of the specialities in cricket.

 

[someblokedave]

From what I have seen, the vast majority of spinners are self taught. You may pick up the basics off an amateur or level 1 coach at an early age but after that there is no real in between spin coaching. Cousins of mine and blokes I played with used to go to all of the clinics and what not, but most kids simply wouldn't have been able to afford it.

I went to Sydney straight after yr 12 and luckily walked into a club where the first grade captain is also an excellent batting and specifically leg spin bowling coach. I hadn't played extremely high levels of cricket but I'd played pretty competitively in Northern Country and what not and even then the coaching was almost solely game plans, fielding drills and net sessions. I improved with every session with him and he improved my younger brother's leg spin as ell. Those top notch coaches just pick up things that the generic level 2 coaches miss out on.

Another exercise I have seen help a lot of wrist spinners is a couple of step run up with one of those little hurdle/training step things placed just before delivery stride. Helps your back leg get up and through during delivery. Once you've got someone there slowing down your whole action it helps immensely.

As this thread seems to be suggesting, Leg Spin coaches are as rare as Rocking Horse Pooh, but there's some indication that some of you have been coached and have been to clinics? If so can you describe some or all of the key things that they get you to look at please? Out there in internet land there's several 'You send us your money and we'll send you a DVD or a compressed file with all your need to know about leg spinning' type outfits. These outfits imply that there's additional info that you can't get on the internet, whereas I have it suggested to me that the ECB's official DVD 'Wings to Fly' doesn't even cover stuff that I already know and do. So any descriptions of drills would be brillaint if you've been along to these events or have been coached by someone who is a recognised exponent of the art. I was booked in for a Terry Jenner clinic last July but then he had his heart attack, so I reckon I've missed my chance.

 

[cnerd123]

Dave, I've see your youtube vids! Love them

I'm going to try the flipper variation number 5, despite being an offy. Any tips on how to get it going well?

Also - I've experienced the googly symptom. Used to bowl legbreaks, for a phase I could bowl nothing but googlies.

 

[someblokedave]

Hello *****, yeah that's one of the more useful ones, that I bowl myself. I think the most important thing with it is to get your 'Click' going well. I tried it initially and pulled the medial epicondal, so you have to be careful of that. My advice is just flick the ball in your hand for a couple of weeks as in the video, with that angled wrist position, so that the balls coming out with top-spin. Once you've built up the muscle and flexibility, just try over a short distance and build up to the full 22 yards.

Yeah googly syndrome - horrible, I still really have to focus on bowling the leg break otherwise my action would readily return to the Googly if I relaxed and didn't really try. Let us know how you get on with the Grimmett mystery ball (No.5).

 

[ringo1968]

As this thread seems to be suggesting, Leg Spin coaches are as rare as Rocking Horse Pooh, but there's some indication that some of you have been coached and have been to clinics? If so can you describe some or all of the key things that they get you to look at please? Out there in internet land there's several 'You send us your money and we'll send you a DVD or a compressed file with all your need to know about leg spinning' type outfits. These outfits imply that there's additional info that you can't get on the internet, whereas I have it suggested to me that the ECB's official DVD 'Wings to Fly' doesn't even cover stuff that I already know and do. So any descriptions of drills would be brillaint if you've been along to these events or have been coached by someone who is a recognised exponent of the art. I was booked in for a Terry Jenner clinic last July but then he had his heart attack, so I reckon I've missed my chance.

Dave- where are those Terry Jenner clinics? In England by any chance. I live in North Essex by the way.

 

[someblokedave]

The one that I was virtually signed up for before he had his heart attack was due to be held in Chingford as I recall. He was a bit dubious about me going along as it's normally aimed at kids, I was saying I'd just pay to go and watch and listen and not do the drills. He's dead now - died last week, he's a big loss to wrist spinning and spin bowling in general.

 

[ponting28]

Leg spin

Leg spin is a art of cricket. Please learn it well. Look at warne and then try your best. Hope you can do it.

 

[someblokedave]

Yeah I wouldn't get too carried away with trying to emulate Warne, that may be a goal too far and you'll end up being really demoralised because you can't produce balls like he can. Learn how to bowl a good leg break, get your length and line consistent and bowl to the off-stump and have a top-spinner for your variation or something that goes straight. Keep it simple and you'll do okay.

 

[ringo1968]

Yeah I wouldn't get too carried away with trying to emulate Warne, that may be a goal too far and you'll end up being really demoralised because you can't produce balls like he can. Learn how to bowl a good leg break, get your length and line consistent and bowl to the off-stump and have a top-spinner for your variation or something that goes straight. Keep it simple and you'll do okay.

That's correct. You simply cannot emulate your heroes, it isn't feasible. Warne was blessed with a strong upper body and strong wrists-he had to push himself around in a cart for nearly 12 months as a youngster. Probably why he could turn the ball so much and so quickly. But you won't go far wrong studying his basic action and rhythm.Do you know much about Philpott's 'Going around the loop'? I am currently reading this book and trying to give the ball a proper flick but am definitely struggling with wrist position for these variations!!!!