Fast Bowling Coaching

Ponty · 08-11-2007, 04:22 AM

Many thanks to Neil Pickup, whose post I read about my Coventry course www.maverickscricket.com/absat.htm - I'm pleased you enjoyed it and if you are as stiff as a board that's a GOOD sign!

I didn't come on here to advertise, but I did want to say that many of the bowling questions you have can be covered on the tips and hints page on my www.maverickscricket.com website, which was set up for players and coaches alike.

Neil was very open minded on the coaching course, which really helps and his action definitely improved a great deal during the session.Well done.

The hardest thing I find is getting out to fast bowlers who want to improve. They don't know where to find good coaches, and I don't know who wants help! Let's hope forums like this can assist everyone.....

Best, Ian Pont
ECB National Skill Sets Coach

bond21 · 08-11-2007, 05:21 AM

hi ian, i have been to your site many times in the past 2 weeks or so and the one tip I dont understand 100% is the 2nd last one on the page(i think).

It's the one about after the load up bringing your bowling arm down near your waist quickly to gain more speed and timing. For example do you mean load up near your chin, then quickly bring it down by your waist, then bowl the ball, or do you mean bring it up to your chin then just bowl it as quickly as you can?

Is that basically what brett lee does? his bowling arm sort of goes up then down beside his waist, then he bowls it, but a lot of bowlers dont do that.

Could you please clarify this as i am unsure of what you mean.

Thanks.

Ponty · 08-11-2007, 07:28 AM

Bond21....decent question.

If you think about it, you can ONLY bowl from the bottom of the downswing, which is down past your bowling hip. My point about load up (which is the part before that) is to get quickly from here to the point from which you bowl. You mention Brett Lee who locks his load up in at hip height anyway AS his load up, and you rightly point out that others don't do this. The other International who does is Netherlands 21-year old quickie, Mark Jonkman - who looks remarkably similar to Lee.

The higher you go in your load up, the longer it takes to get down to bowl, so be careful not to load up too high if you want to maximise your consistency of action and pace.

Of course, some bowlers say they do it for rhythm purposes and it feels natural to load up very high. That's only because they've never been corrected.

If you go to www.youtube.com and type in ABSAT in the search, you'll find some bowlers I work with going through drills.

bond21 · 08-11-2007, 08:28 AM

ok so basically you only need to load up around the hip area, cause my coach tells me to bring the arm up to the chin and bowl from there, he said it would give more pace because of the downswing, so is he misinformed about that?

Can you get the same amount of pace and accuracy from a load up around the hip compared to a load up around the chin?

Manee · 08-11-2007, 09:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ponty

If you think about it, you can ONLY bowl from the bottom of the downswing, which is down past your bowling hip. My point about load up (which is the part before that) is to get quickly from here to the point from which you bowl. You mention Brett Lee who locks his load up in at hip height anyway AS his load up, and you rightly point out that others don't do this.

Would it be right to imitate Brett Lee (or Mark Jonkman

) by doing his load up or would it be sufficient to simply speed up my current load up.

Secondly, what do you think of Wasim Akram's style of bowling by rushing through the action. Is he simply accounting for flaws in his action and he is actually very talented or does his action have several biomechanical perfections?

On the subject of Wasim, people say he has a 'quick arm' but surely all fast bowlers have quick arms because that is how pace is generated.

Manee · 08-11-2007, 09:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bond21

ok so basically you only need to load up around the hip area, cause my coach tells me to bring the arm up to the chin and bowl from there, he said it would give more pace because of the downswing, so is he misinformed about that?

Can you get the same amount of pace and accuracy from a load up around the hip compared to a load up around the chin?

I'm just as confused as you about the load up, so many coaches say so many different things about it just as so many different bowlers have different load ups.

Neil Pickup · 08-11-2007, 02:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ponty

Many thanks to Neil Pickup, whose post I read about my Coventry course www.maverickscricket.com/absat.htm - I'm pleased you enjoyed it and if you are as stiff as a board that's a GOOD sign!

I didn't come on here to advertise, but I did want to say that many of the bowling questions you have can be covered on the tips and hints page on my www.maverickscricket.com website, which was set up for players and coaches alike.

Neil was very open minded on the coaching course, which really helps and his action definitely improved a great deal during the session.Well done.

The hardest thing I find is getting out to fast bowlers who want to improve. They don't know where to find good coaches, and I don't know who wants help! Let's hope forums like this can assist everyone.....

Best, Ian Pont
ECB National Skill Sets Coach

Have to say I didn't expect that post to be found this soon, if at all... but I'm never surprised by anything any more, not since hitting someone for six in April, anyway. Got my certificate through the post this morning - well pleased at not only having passed but having passed with merit!

I'm now consumed with dreams about how I'll be able to fill the school 3rd XI with mini Mark Jonkmans and playing chin music with the unsuspecting oppo. Obviously notwithstanding the fact that anyone who gets good will be nicked by the 2nds, and the kids are likely to be too short and the pitches too soft to get the ball to stomach height, never mind face height.

Ponty · 09-11-2007, 09:48 AM

Don't confuse load ups with feet position. Bowlers who are front on, or close to it, tend to spend less time in the crease than sideways on bowlers who 'pull' the ball from behind like a javelin throw.

With regard to load up, this is merely the way to get the ball down into a bowling start position at the bototm of the downswing. It can be high, it can be low. It should always be straight if possible. Check Steve Harmison's high load up with elbows pointing outwards (chicken wings). Tough to be consistent with that but people still manage it.

My point is why complicate something if you can simplify it? Think about where you bowl from (bottom of the downswing) and how to get to that position smoothly and in control.

I would prefer someone to load up in front of their body so they keep moving forwards, and maintain a straight line with the bowling hand moving down to the bottom of the downswing. It can help with momentum yes, Bond21. But as Lee proves, it's not always necessary. Akhtar has changed has load up several times in his career, but understands totally what he does in his action. This is they key really. Know what you do, why you do it, and what it helps you do (or hinders you to do).

Matteh · 09-11-2007, 09:39 PM

As you appear to be checking this thread pretty regularly atm.

I tend to be a right armed side on bowler, but my left arm aims towards about middle/leg as it comes down and i find i have to turn slightly as i bowl in order to get it landing on offstump and when i don't do the slight turn it spears down legside. Now i'm getting good accuracy in my bowling by bowling like that, but i have a worry that it's going to utterly destroy my back due to one force going down legside and then having to turn my body in my delivery stride into the opposite direction.

Was just wondering if my action was going to cause a problem to my back (most importantly really) and if so is there any obvious answer to rectify it without sacrificing the accuracy?

Ponty · 16-11-2007, 10:32 AM

Matteh

Drive your right hip towards the batsman just before you release the ball. EVERY bowler is chest on at delivery so use this the rotate top and bottom half together at the target.

If your hips and shoulders are lined up on release you'll be just fine.

bond21 · 17-11-2007, 01:00 AM

I have been experimenting at training with load ups etc.

I have tried 3 different load ups -

First one was sort of like Lee's locking at the hip and bowling, i felt this hindered pace a bit.

Second one was loading up at the chin, this gave me slightly more pace.

Third one was sort of like Shane Bond's action. In the jump I leant back and brought my arm up a bit higher locking it over my shoulder(not as high as Shane Bond's bowling arm), which felt like it helped brought everything back in the jump, then at release I sort of snapped everything forward, and I felt that gave me more pace than anything else i had tried.

Feel free to comment Ian if you have any comments.

Ponty · 17-11-2007, 02:39 AM

Very hard to comment as I cannot see you bowl, and for every Brett Lee, there's a Shaun Tait.

You have to find a load that suits you and feels good. Technically, you don't want to lean too far back if you're trying to generate pace forward, or spend too long way up in the air when you're trying to get down to the bottom of the downswing to bowl.

www.maverickscricket.com/tips.htm will give you a starting point.

Load ups are only the trigger for a bowler, so don't get overly hung up on them. But try to get everything moving ahead of you and to target. And remember, you can only bowl from the hip upwards in the swingt of the arm - that's the only time your bowling arm should be, and HAS to be straight.

bond21 · 17-11-2007, 03:48 AM

yea i know you shouldnt jump too high and that.

But do you recommend fast bowlers to lean back slightly in the jump, or something else?

Anyway a fast bowler brought his video camera to training one night and analysed me and a few other bowlers, and he showed me and he said I was not leaning far back enough, i didnt actually lean back at all, i wasnt even totally upright in delivery. I know its extremely hard for you to recommend improvements as i cant even explain it properly.

Neil Pickup · 17-11-2007, 06:33 AM

Why did he want you to lean back?

bond21 · 17-11-2007, 07:18 AM

to be able to use my whole body to bowl the ball instead of just the bowling arm.

Watch Shane Bond bowl, he bends his back in the jump then snaps everything forward which i think helps his pace.

08-11-2007, 04:22 AM	#1 (permalink)
Ponty School Boy/Girl Cricketer Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: UK Posts: 68	Fast Bowling Coaching Many thanks to Neil Pickup, whose post I read about my Coventry course www.maverickscricket.com/absat.htm - I'm pleased you enjoyed it and if you are as stiff as a board that's a GOOD sign! I didn't come on here to advertise, but I did want to say that many of the bowling questions you have can be covered on the tips and hints page on my www.maverickscricket.com website, which was set up for players and coaches alike. Neil was very open minded on the coaching course, which really helps and his action definitely improved a great deal during the session.Well done. The hardest thing I find is getting out to fast bowlers who want to improve. They don't know where to find good coaches, and I don't know who wants help! Let's hope forums like this can assist everyone..... Best, Ian Pont ECB National Skill Sets Coach

08-11-2007, 05:21 AM	#2 (permalink)
bond21 Banned Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: New York, New York Posts: 953	hi ian, i have been to your site many times in the past 2 weeks or so and the one tip I dont understand 100% is the 2nd last one on the page(i think). It's the one about after the load up bringing your bowling arm down near your waist quickly to gain more speed and timing. For example do you mean load up near your chin, then quickly bring it down by your waist, then bowl the ball, or do you mean bring it up to your chin then just bowl it as quickly as you can? Is that basically what brett lee does? his bowling arm sort of goes up then down beside his waist, then he bowls it, but a lot of bowlers dont do that. Could you please clarify this as i am unsure of what you mean. Thanks. Last edited by bond21; 08-11-2007 at 05:23 AM.

08-11-2007, 07:28 AM	#3 (permalink)
Ponty School Boy/Girl Cricketer Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: UK Posts: 68	Load Up Bond21....decent question. If you think about it, you can ONLY bowl from the bottom of the downswing, which is down past your bowling hip. My point about load up (which is the part before that) is to get quickly from here to the point from which you bowl. You mention Brett Lee who locks his load up in at hip height anyway AS his load up, and you rightly point out that others don't do this. The other International who does is Netherlands 21-year old quickie, Mark Jonkman - who looks remarkably similar to Lee. The higher you go in your load up, the longer it takes to get down to bowl, so be careful not to load up too high if you want to maximise your consistency of action and pace. Of course, some bowlers say they do it for rhythm purposes and it feels natural to load up very high. That's only because they've never been corrected. If you go to www.youtube.com and type in ABSAT in the search, you'll find some bowlers I work with going through drills.

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08-11-2007, 08:28 AM	#4 (permalink)
bond21 Banned Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: New York, New York Posts: 953	ok so basically you only need to load up around the hip area, cause my coach tells me to bring the arm up to the chin and bowl from there, he said it would give more pace because of the downswing, so is he misinformed about that? Can you get the same amount of pace and accuracy from a load up around the hip compared to a load up around the chin?

09-11-2007, 09:48 AM	#8 (permalink)
Ponty School Boy/Girl Cricketer Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: UK Posts: 68	Don't confuse load ups with feet position. Bowlers who are front on, or close to it, tend to spend less time in the crease than sideways on bowlers who 'pull' the ball from behind like a javelin throw. With regard to load up, this is merely the way to get the ball down into a bowling start position at the bototm of the downswing. It can be high, it can be low. It should always be straight if possible. Check Steve Harmison's high load up with elbows pointing outwards (chicken wings). Tough to be consistent with that but people still manage it. My point is why complicate something if you can simplify it? Think about where you bowl from (bottom of the downswing) and how to get to that position smoothly and in control. I would prefer someone to load up in front of their body so they keep moving forwards, and maintain a straight line with the bowling hand moving down to the bottom of the downswing. It can help with momentum yes, Bond21. But as Lee proves, it's not always necessary. Akhtar has changed has load up several times in his career, but understands totally what he does in his action. This is they key really. Know what you do, why you do it, and what it helps you do (or hinders you to do).

16-11-2007, 10:32 AM	#10 (permalink)
Ponty School Boy/Girl Cricketer Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: UK Posts: 68	Matteh Drive your right hip towards the batsman just before you release the ball. EVERY bowler is chest on at delivery so use this the rotate top and bottom half together at the target. If your hips and shoulders are lined up on release you'll be just fine.

17-11-2007, 01:00 AM	#11 (permalink)
bond21 Banned Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: New York, New York Posts: 953	I have been experimenting at training with load ups etc. I have tried 3 different load ups - First one was sort of like Lee's locking at the hip and bowling, i felt this hindered pace a bit. Second one was loading up at the chin, this gave me slightly more pace. Third one was sort of like Shane Bond's action. In the jump I leant back and brought my arm up a bit higher locking it over my shoulder(not as high as Shane Bond's bowling arm), which felt like it helped brought everything back in the jump, then at release I sort of snapped everything forward, and I felt that gave me more pace than anything else i had tried. Feel free to comment Ian if you have any comments.

17-11-2007, 02:39 AM	#12 (permalink)
Ponty School Boy/Girl Cricketer Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: UK Posts: 68	Very hard to comment as I cannot see you bowl, and for every Brett Lee, there's a Shaun Tait. You have to find a load that suits you and feels good. Technically, you don't want to lean too far back if you're trying to generate pace forward, or spend too long way up in the air when you're trying to get down to the bottom of the downswing to bowl. www.maverickscricket.com/tips.htm will give you a starting point. Load ups are only the trigger for a bowler, so don't get overly hung up on them. But try to get everything moving ahead of you and to target. And remember, you can only bowl from the hip upwards in the swingt of the arm - that's the only time your bowling arm should be, and HAS to be straight.

17-11-2007, 03:48 AM	#13 (permalink)
bond21 Banned Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: New York, New York Posts: 953	yea i know you shouldnt jump too high and that. But do you recommend fast bowlers to lean back slightly in the jump, or something else? Anyway a fast bowler brought his video camera to training one night and analysed me and a few other bowlers, and he showed me and he said I was not leaning far back enough, i didnt actually lean back at all, i wasnt even totally upright in delivery. I know its extremely hard for you to recommend improvements as i cant even explain it properly.

17-11-2007, 06:33 AM	#14 (permalink)
Neil Pickup Cricket Web Staff Member / Global Moderator Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Oxford, England Posts: 26,361	Why did he want you to lean back?

17-11-2007, 07:18 AM	#15 (permalink)
bond21 Banned Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: New York, New York Posts: 953	to be able to use my whole body to bowl the ball instead of just the bowling arm. Watch Shane Bond bowl, he bends his back in the jump then snaps everything forward which i think helps his pace.

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