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Thread: Fast Bowling Coaching

  1. #16
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    Im asking Ponty if Shane Bond's degree of lean in the jump is ok, as he said not to lean too far back. Im pretty sure i dont lean further back than Shane Bond.

    http://youtube.com/watch?v=c3QcYE2WyHk&feature=related

    thats a sample of Shane Bond if you havent seen him for a while.

  2. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by bond21 View Post
    to be able to use my whole body to bowl the ball instead of just the bowling arm.

    Watch Shane Bond bowl, he bends his back in the jump then snaps everything forward which i think helps his pace.
    Don't copy Shane Bond! I'm no Ian Pont, but take it from me that copying Shane Bond will have you injured before long.
    The speed at which a fielding team gets through the innings is overrated.

  3. #18
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    if someone copies shane bond it doesnt mean he will be injured like shane bond is....

    Shane Bond's hips and shoulders werent in alignment which caused him injuries

    Im not even copying him, i think that his jump is perfect for generating pace.
    Its like saying copying akhtar's action means you will be called for throwing.

    Bond has had his action analysed in labs etc and they have fixed problems with it, and he still has a big leap and leans back a long way, so they obviously dont see a problem with it.

  4. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by bond21 View Post
    if someone copies shane bond it doesnt mean he will be injured like shane bond is....

    Shane Bond's hips and shoulders werent in alignment which caused him injuries

    Im not even copying him, i think that his jump is perfect for generating pace.
    Its like saying copying akhtar's action means you will be called for throwing.

    Bond has had his action analysed in labs etc and they have fixed problems with it, and he still has a big leap and leans back a long way, so they obviously dont see a problem with it.
    It is nothing like saying Akhtar's action will have you called for throwing since Akhtar has hyperextention.

    Bond has had his action analysed in labs but if you are suggesting that they are 100% satisfyed with his action as being biomechanically sound for his body, either you or the lab are grossly incompetant. Bond abuses his body in the hunt for pace and one cannot deny that.


  5. #20
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    Bond had a mixed action ffs, his hips were completely side on and his shoulders were front on.

    his injuries came from doing that his whole life, not from bending his back.

  6. #21
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    Ian, do you think Shane Bond's injuries have been because of his arched back during the bound, or hes just unlucky?

    Because a lot of coaches have told me to arch my back during the leap.

    Or do you recommend a bound like Lee's, he doesnt seem to bend back much.
    Last edited by bond21; 18-11-2007 at 05:24 AM.

  7. #22
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    Hmmmmm. Leaning back is not really recommended. My view is that Bond LOSES pace by doing that personally. He could drive his hips and core harder and use his arms better to generate even more pace and accuracy, rather than lean back, by going forward.

    Some bowlers arch their backs a little - hyperextension, or sometimes a slight lean to counteract a movement elsewhere in their action - but pretty much everything ought to be going to target.

    The phrase 'bend your back' is one of the worst I have heard as it implies this is a good thing. I would rather a bowler thinks about delaying their bowling arm, having a long arm pull from behind (like shoaib), and then driving this at the target from an upright or driving forward position.

    Bond decelerates on his slight lean back if you watch, which 'washes off' his energy making it slightly inefficient. Despite this is one seriously good bowler! I'd prefer if he did what we worked on with Dale Steyn, and drive to target hard from the top half all the way through the action. But that's Dayle Hadlee's issue, as NZ coach and not mine.

  8. #23
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    Also the run up

    At the moment I have a relatively short run up - 14 normal paces from the popping crease.

    I usually sprint in the most of the way but i was wondering if I should increase the length of the run up and gradually build into momentum.

    Like maybe take it out to 18 or 20 paces and build up speed like a steamtrain.

    I have a semi open action, like McGrath, back foot facing fine leg, front foot straight down the pitch, shoulders and hips aligned at a 45 degree angle.

    I know a side on bowler gradually builds momentum, and a front on bowler sprints in but what does a semi open bowler do?

    I appreciate all the questions youve answered so far Ian, I know you're a busy man.
    Last edited by bond21; 20-11-2007 at 07:57 AM.

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    http://www.maverickscricket.com/coaching.htm scroll down to the middle of the page and see the video clip assessment.

    If you to have your action assessed correctly please let me know. I have many Aussie club cricketers who contact me about assessments and want to invest in their future.

    At least you'll know what to do...

  10. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ponty View Post
    Hmmmmm. Leaning back is not really recommended. My view is that Bond LOSES pace by doing that personally. He could drive his hips and core harder and use his arms better to generate even more pace and accuracy, rather than lean back, by going forward.

    Some bowlers arch their backs a little - hyperextension, or sometimes a slight lean to counteract a movement elsewhere in their action - but pretty much everything ought to be going to target.

    The phrase 'bend your back' is one of the worst I have heard as it implies this is a good thing. I would rather a bowler thinks about delaying their bowling arm, having a long arm pull from behind (like shoaib), and then driving this at the target from an upright or driving forward position.

    Bond decelerates on his slight lean back if you watch, which 'washes off' his energy making it slightly inefficient. Despite this is one seriously good bowler! I'd prefer if he did what we worked on with Dale Steyn, and drive to target hard from the top half all the way through the action. But that's Dayle Hadlee's issue, as NZ coach and not mine.

    Basically you mean holding the bowling arm back a bit as if to put more power in it, then bowl it?

    I was at training the other day and I was getting more pace with a load up similar to Shoaib's. Is that possible to get pace from changing something as simple as that?

    And what's your opinion on Shoaib's load up? Does he lose accuracy with it?
    Last edited by bond21; 24-11-2007 at 06:01 AM.

  11. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by bond21 View Post
    Basically you mean holding the bowling arm back a bit as if to put more power in it, then bowl it?

    I was at training the other day and I was getting more pace with a load up similar to Shoaib's. Is that possible to get pace from changing something as simple as that?

    And what's your opinion on Shoaib's load up? Does he lose accuracy with it?
    Yes exactly that!

    Shoaib has changed his load up 3 times in his career as he understands what he needs to maximise his speed. I was fortunate enough to have a 2 hour session with him in 2005. He's one smart cookie when it comes to his own bowling....

  12. #27
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    yea i get the hint..

    but theoretically, if shoaib akhtar used an action like glenn mcgrath for example, would that increase his accuracy albeit sacrifice some pace? cause in his load up his arm is away from his body where people tell you to get it in close.

    shoaib looks like hes sacrificing accuracy to gain pace, am i wrong? because no coach teaches kids to bowl like him.

  13. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by bond21 View Post
    yea i get the hint..

    but theoretically, if shoaib akhtar used an action like glenn mcgrath for example, would that increase his accuracy albeit sacrifice some pace? cause in his load up his arm is away from his body where people tell you to get it in close.

    shoaib looks like hes sacrificing accuracy to gain pace, am i wrong? because no coach teaches kids to bowl like him.
    The same things you need for pace (straight lines, drive to target, momentum at off stump ect) are the same things you need for accuracy. The greatest discovery in fast bowling is you don't have to sacrifice accuracy for pace. It's not 'one or the other'.

    You can be fast and inaccurate, and you can be medium pace and accurate (you HAVE to be accurate if you've got no pace!). But you can be both accurate and fast if you know how to access pace, where it comes from, what to do with your body, how to use arm pull, chest drive and a full shoulder rotation. These are the EXACT things I'm teaching (called ABSAT, Advanced Biomechanics Speed & Accuracy Techniques) and it's what coaches are starting to realise at last.

    Dale Steyn, one of my high profile students, is beginning to master it. His last two Tests have brought 10 wickets in each and I believe he's now up to 3 in the world. He can bowl faster than he does and will do so as he gets to grips with things.

    I hear poor coaches say, slow down, bowl a line & length, as if for some reason pace & accuracy come from different things. They come from the very same thing - it's simply that coaches don't understand how to work with bowlers to increase their pace.

    Most medium pace bowlers are medium pace because they don't use what they've got properly, that's all. My book, The Fast Bowler's Bible, reveals all this. www.maverickscricket.com/bible.htm - I can only suggest you buy it and read for yourself the facts about pace & accuracy.

  14. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ponty View Post
    Dale Steyn, one of my high profile students, is beginning to master it. His last two Tests have brought 10 wickets in each and I believe he's now up to 3 in the world. He can bowl faster than he does and will do so as he gets to grips with things.
    Would you say that Steyn possesses an action which harnesses all of your teachings better than any other?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Manee View Post
    Would you say that Steyn possesses an action which harnesses all of your teachings better than any other?
    Dale Steyn is close...but Brett Lee is the closest. Allan Donald was another. It's all about interpretation of the biomechanics. Individuals do things in a different way and will have a different look to their actions, but they will all do many of the 10 key points correctly.

    And the more they do right, the faster they will bowl. Lee, Steyn, Donald and Akthar are the quickest (are and have been the quickest) in recent years. Whilse their actions all appear different, they do the same things right.

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