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Thread: 2 Champions Trophies vs World Cup

  1. #16
    Cricket Web Staff Member Black_Warrior's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Daemon View Post
    I think the IPL is the pinnacle really.
    Raees and Hassan owned Morgan and Stokes, so clearly PSL > IPL
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  2. #17
    School Boy/Girl Captain Motorwada's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Black_Warrior View Post
    Raees and Hassan owned Morgan and Stokes, so clearly PSL > IPL
    But that England team didn't have all IPL players.

    Kohli and co owned Hasan etc so clearly IPL > PSL.

    11 IPL players vs 11 PSL players.

  3. #18
    International Captain centurymaker's Avatar
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    The format for the 2019 WC is totally different though. There'll be 10 teams, and they'll all play each other but only the top 4 best teams will make the semis. It's similar to IPL. It's like a league followed by knockouts.

    --
    Having thought more about this topic now, I think I might have been blurring the line between success and glory because in terms of success, if a team wins 3-4 CTs then you could argue that they have had more success than a team that wins just one world cup.

    However, in terms of glory/status/worth though, even multiple CTs pale in comparison to the WC. You wouldn't want to swap even 3-4 CTs for a World Cup.. Because as vcs mentioned, it's like comparing Grand Slam vs end of year tour championship. Grand Slams are the ultimate prize so even winning multiple tour championships-wouldn't match up to a grand slam win.

    It's like winning bronze and silver level medals, which cannot add up to the ultimate Gold Medal (world cup).

  4. #19
    Cricket Web Staff Member Black_Warrior's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Motorwada View Post
    But that England team didn't have all IPL players.

    Kohli and co owned Hasan etc so clearly IPL > PSL.

    11 IPL players vs 11 PSL players.
    11 PSL players owned Sri Lanka who in turn owned 11 IPL players

    PSL > IPL

    You can't beat the maths mate.


  5. #20
    School Boy/Girl Captain Motorwada's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Black_Warrior View Post
    11 PSL players owned Sri Lanka who in turn owned 11 IPL players

    PSL > IPL

    You can't beat the maths mate.
    I'll let you have this one. Cheers.

  6. #21
    School Boy/Girl Captain Motorwada's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by centurymaker View Post
    The format for the 2019 WC is totally different though. There'll be 10 teams, and they'll all play each other but only the top 4 best teams will make the semis. It's similar to IPL. It's like a league followed by knockouts.

    --
    Having thought more about this topic now, I think I might have been blurring the line between success and glory because in terms of success, if a team wins 3-4 CTs then you could argue that they have had more success than a team that wins just one world cup.

    However, in terms of glory/status/worth though, even multiple CTs pale in comparison to the WC. You wouldn't want to swap even 3-4 CTs for a World Cup.. Because as vcs mentioned, it's like comparing Grand Slam vs end of year tour championship. Grand Slams are the ultimate prize so even winning multiple tour championships-wouldn't match up to a grand slam win.

    It's like winning bronze and silver level medals, which cannot add up to the ultimate Gold Medal (world cup).
    CT is a nice addition but it needs a WC to look good. Like people can now refer to Dhoni's 3 trophies.

  7. #22
    International Captain centurymaker's Avatar
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    And I agree that T20 world cup triumps CT, no doubt. It's like the CT is a bronze-level tournament, T20 WC is like a silver-level tournament, while the ODI WC is a gold-level tournament.

    The stakes, the status is just soooo much higher and luck is much less of a factor because you have played so many more games (and there used to be super six stage as well) and after a long group stage, the teams finish 1st, 2nd, 3rd, 4th etc in a relatively fair position so the knockout draw isn't crazy and usually you find that only the best teams make the World Cup final.
    And unlike CT, your fate is not totally decided by 1 or 2 washouts or something (eg Australia in CT).

    Finals

    2003: Aus v India
    2007: Aus v Sri Lanka
    2011: Ind v Sri Lanka
    2015: Aus v NZ

    The teams that tend to make the final or (usually even the last four)...always not only deserve to be there having beaten various opponents, they tend to be the best teams of the WC too. It's not like Bangladesh (just an example) makes the final all of sudden, whereas in CT they can make the final ...after just 2 wins...


    WC >>> CT in all fairness.

  8. #23
    Cricket Web: All-Time Legend honestbharani's Avatar
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    Good points by most posters here and I agree with what seems to be the general consensus that WC > WT20 > CT. The format of the WC does make it very interesting with respect to how tough it is to win it, as theoretically a team that did not look all that super in the league stages can still have 3 good days and storm to a WC victory, but really, that is how Pakistan and Australia won the 92 and 99 WCs respectively, so its not like those formats were any worse.

    I do agree that with the next WC being of the 10 team format, I wont mind them scrapping the CT or reinventing it a bit. Maybe allow only WC winning sides to participate to really make it a "Champions" Trophy? I am just throwing out ideas here but I do feel the CT in its current format will become meaningless if the 2019 WC format sticks, for that tournament and beyond.
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  9. #24
    International Captain centurymaker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by honestbharani View Post
    Good points by most posters here and I agree with what seems to be the general consensus that WC > WT20 > CT. The format of the WC does make it very interesting with respect to how tough it is to win it, as theoretically a team that did not look all that super in the league stages can still have 3 good days and storm to a WC victory, but really, that is how Pakistan and Australia won the 92 and 99 WCs respectively, so its not like those formats were any worse.

    I do agree that with the next WC being of the 10 team format, I wont mind them scrapping the CT or reinventing it a bit. Maybe allow only WC winning sides to participate to really make it a "Champions" Trophy? I am just throwing out ideas here but I do feel the CT in its current format will become meaningless if the 2019 WC format sticks, for that tournament and beyond.
    Australia's win in 99 wasn't just about 3 good days..

    They played the round robin, then played the super six and then tied the semi-final, but qualified for final based on finishing higher than SA in the previous round.
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  10. #25
    Cricket Web: All-Time Legend honestbharani's Avatar
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    No.. they should have been out in the super 6 though. Its the equivalent of coming back out of nowhere to win the whole thing, just like Pak did in the 92 tourney. Even then, Pak played every team in the competition and still made it to the top 4 and won from there. But my point was more along the lines that ultimately it was 3 or 4 good days that led these sides to the win than any consistent ruling over the competition in the other stages. So even if a not so fancied side wins it after 3 good games by the 2011 and 2015 format, it wont be any less worth than those other wins.


    My point was that the format was not a bad one. That is all.

  11. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by honestbharani View Post
    Maybe allow only WC winning sides to participate to really make it a "Champions" Trophy?
    Well, that would spare South African fans seeing their team crash out of yet another tournament.
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  12. #27
    Cricket Web: All-Time Legend honestbharani's Avatar
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    Or they can win the 2019 WC and participate.

  13. #28
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  14. #29
    International Captain centurymaker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by honestbharani View Post
    No.. they should have been out in the super 6 though. Its the equivalent of coming back out of nowhere to win the whole thing, just like Pak did in the 92 tourney. Even then, Pak played every team in the competition and still made it to the top 4 and won from there. But my point was more along the lines that ultimately it was 3 or 4 good days that led these sides to the win than any consistent ruling over the competition in the other stages. So even if a not so fancied side wins it after 3 good games by the 2011 and 2015 format, it wont be any less worth than those other wins.


    My point was that the format was not a bad one. That is all.
    Yup.


    Yea, the team has to be gooood enough though, otherwise it's unlikely they can have 3-4 really good days.

    In football btw, only the big nations seem to win the WC every time.. no underdog rises up even though the format allows it.
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  15. #30
    State Vice-Captain burr's Avatar
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    Teams don't target CT so they're not all arriving at the peak of their form and with their best sides which is a problem for the tournament. Maybe it would be better having it closer to the WC to generate excitement and get an idea of how the big powers are shaping up.
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