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Thread: Group A - Australia, Bangladesh, England, New Zealand

  1. #331
    Cricket Web Staff Member Black_Warrior's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 91Jmay View Post
    The only thing this tournament has shown me is that there probably isn't as clear cut rankings to ODIs as I thought. I would have said Aus/Ind and SA were probably a tier a head of the rest but I think like with Tests there appears to be a top 4 with some difference but not a great deal.

    Lack of great teams currently, just a few very good ones with flaws. Makes it quite exciting in all forms to be honest.
    Rankings are based for major part on bilateral series, not one off games. The best team will not necessarily win a short tournament of this nature where you have one bad game and you're almost out and in LO cricket, on a given day, anyone can beat anyone. Let's look at some of the surprising results

    Pakistan beat South Africa (but won't win against SA in a bilateral series home or away)
    Bangladesh beat New Zealand (but won't win against NZ in an away bilateral series)
    Sri Lanka beat India (but won't win against them in a bilateral series home or away.

    Even Australia losing to England, while not an upset but you can't really predict the winner in a 5 match series. Australia is a quality ODI side and their performances over the last 2 years should get more weight than 1 bad match.

    So rankings can just give us an indication of pre tournament favourites but once the tournament starts, it really is anybody's game.

    Australia, South Africa, India and England are a touch above the rest of the teams.. That still stands even if 3 out of those 4 teams get knocked out in this tournament.
    91Jmay likes this.
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  2. #332
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  3. #333
    Cricket Web: All-Time Legend Zinzan's Avatar
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    Played England, & hats off to Bangers for reaching the semis. They deserve it much more than NZ,

    From a NZ POV, this embarrassing exit including zero wins might be a blessing in that it might put an end to this denial that they think they have all their bases covered, when many of us knew leading into the tournament that we have only 3 batsmen & that middle order were likely to be hit and miss. .

    Hindsight is a wonderful thing, but can't help thinking the following NZ XI might have performed better in English conditions,

    Ronchi+ (still not ideal, but hey)
    Guptill
    KW*
    Taylor
    Latham/Brownlie (for the simple reason Latham can hold the middle together if the big 3 fail and he can sweep spinners well, we need someone with the ability to bat time if needed)
    Tom Bruce/Munro (Bruce - Natural ball striker, better eye than an aging Broom, most talented white-ball up and comer in the country)
    de Grandhomme/Anderson
    Santner
    Southee
    Sodhi/Bennett/McClenghan/Milne (Sodhi if it's spinning).
    Boult

  4. #334
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zinzan View Post
    From a NZ POV, this embarrassing exit including zero wins might be a blessing in that it might put an end to this denial that they think they have all their bases covered, when many of us knew leading into the tournament that we have only 3 batsmen & that middle order were likely to be hit and miss. .
    Don't count on it. They'll say they would've beaten Australia, short tournament, anyone can win on their day etc. Plus with the Lions series on here + America's Cup, no one gives a **** media or public wise so it's all under the carpet.

    I don't think the personnel can change too much anyway, who they've got is nigh-on the best abilitied group of players anyway (minus Broom). It's the coaching and getting the most out of them that is the issue. Next summer needs to be one where the likes of Neesham, Anderson, Milne/Henry, Santner, and the rest of the support crew if it's Bruce, Sodhi whoever step up and halt the if Kane doesn't get them, no one will stuff.


  5. #335
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    BD only made it to the semi finals due to the washout. Champions trophy has lost all its integrity. Very bad!
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  6. #336
    International Coach zorax's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by fishyguy View Post
    BD only made it to the semi finals due to the washout. Champions trophy has lost all its integrity. Very bad!
    You're clearly not a fresh-water fish kinds guy




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  7. #337
    Cricket Web Staff Member Black_Warrior's Avatar
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    BD the only team from a group of minnows still fighting it out. What a boring, predictable tournament this has been

  8. #338
    International Coach hendrix's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SteveNZ View Post
    I don't think the personnel can change too much anyway, who they've got is nigh-on the best abilitied group of players anyway (minus Broom). It's the coaching and getting the most out of them that is the issue. Next summer needs to be one where the likes of Neesham, Anderson, Milne/Henry, Santner, and the rest of the support crew if it's Bruce, Sodhi whoever step up and halt the if Kane doesn't get them, no one will stuff.
    What I'm wondering is how Craig McMillan and Shane Jurgensen can outline positive impacts they've had on the players.

    Tom Latham has gone backwards. Tim Southee has gone backwards. Trent Boult has trod water. Neesham and Anderson haven't improved, nor has Santner. None of the young players have stepped up; arguably it's been the ones who've spent the least time with the international team who've shown the most improvements - e.g. Jeet Raval.
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  9. #339
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    Anderson's decline has been really disappointing. Was pretty excited about him back in 2014-15 but he's completely stalled.
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  10. #340
    Cricketer Of The Year Gnske's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by zorax View Post
    You're clearly not a fresh-water fish kinds guy




    Y'know, cuz you're so full of salt
    The truth will set you free no matter how painful and unfortunate it is.
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  11. #341
    Cricket Web: All-Time Legend Zinzan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hendrix View Post
    What I'm wondering is how Craig McMillan and Shane Jurgensen can outline positive impacts they've had on the players.

    Tom Latham has gone backwards. Tim Southee has gone backwards. Trent Boult has trod water. Neesham and Anderson haven't improved, nor has Santner. None of the young players have stepped up; arguably it's been the ones who've spent the least time with the international team who've shown the most improvements - e.g. Jeet Raval.
    Anderson's definitely gone backwards, and at every bit the rate Latham & Southee have.

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