4th June - Group B - India v Pakistan

[srbhkshk]

As this tournament is being played away from Asia, it's relevant.

Averages 34 outside Asia. (Dhoni averages 42)

Rahane may play better outside Asia than in Asia, but the fact is that he has been a miserable failure in ODIs even after having gotten numerous chances.

You can't claim to keep him in the team for Solidity / and other players not being proven given that Rahane is neither solid nor proven in any way in ODIs.

 

[Pratters]

Compare Rahane with the other options, Yuvraj and Kedar Jadhav. I will take Rahane any day and bat him at 4.

 

[srbhkshk]

Compare Rahane with the other options, Yuvraj and Kedar Jadhav. I will take Rahane any day and bat him at 4.

Kedar has done very well in the opportunities given to him, Yuvi is an ATG ODI player, I will take both of them over Rahane any day and bat them at number 4.

 

[Pratters]

If you want to take Yuvraj, why not take Kapil Dev as well? Jadhav doesn't fill me with confidence. He is okay. Have more faith in Rahane against top bowlers in a high quality competition.

 

[vcs]

TBF, Raina made a ton in an ODI last time we toured England IIRC. Always feel like his head is first on the chopping block when the selectors are looking to replace someone.

Saying that, I can't blame them too much because his technique does look unconvincing in comparison to Rahane if there's some early movement. Agree that Rahane needs to open if he's playing though.

 

[srbhkshk]

If you want to take Yuvraj, why not take Kapil Dev as well? Jadhav doesn't fill me with confidence. He is okay. Have more faith in Rahane against top bowlers in a high quality competition.

Because Yuvraj hit a top class century against England this very year, I would have gladly taken Kapil Dev if he had done the same. And to use your own words "He is proven in ODIs and won't throw his wicket away."

I don't understand the concept of preferring a failure over a success In the ODI side, clearly you are basing your reasoning on Rahane's test performances which is not relevant for ODIs.

 

[Pratters]

TBF, Raina made a ton in an ODI last time we toured England IIRC. Always feel like his head is first on the chopping block when the selectors are looking to replace someone.

Saying that, I can't blame them too much because his technique does look unconvincing in comparison to Rahane if there's some early movement. Agree that Rahane needs to open if he's playing though.

I didn't watch much IPL but Raina seemed less fit to me compared to his better days.

 

[tobe_ornot2]

Averages 40 in 2015, 35 in 2016. He has improved as a batsman in the last two years. Can bat well away from Asia. At least I know that he won't give his wicket away. That's solidity compared to other options like Yuvraj and Jadhav (who is unproven in ODIs).

His average gone down by 5 but he has improved?

 

[tobe_ornot2]

In terms of domestic form and run making, its weird that Gambir could not make the squad. Also, outside of the NZ game, are India going to have anymore warm ups?

 

[Pratters]

Yeah, I am not sure why Gambhir keeps getting ignored.

 

[srbhkshk]

In terms of domestic form and run making, its weird that Gambir could not make the squad. Also, outside of the NZ game, are India going to have anymore warm ups?

India have a warm up against BD, Gambhir struggles a lot against pacers in general and is firmly at #4 (5 if Rahul is available) in ODI opener slot ranking.

 

[cnerd123]

People always learn the hard way why not to try and have a discussion with Pratters...

 

[centurymaker]

Betfair has approx. 3:2 for India and 3:1 for Pakistan.

Coming to the match, the typical feeling here is that there's a chance that our out of form + aging batting could simply collapse and the bowlers won't be able to do enough in that case. If it's a normal match without any drastic collapse from either side, India wins 9/10.

9/10???

No way.

It's more like 6/10 maybe at best 7/10 in the event of a normal game

 

[Pratters]

People always learn the hard way why not to try and have a discussion with Pratters...

You need to stop saying that and being so condescending.

 

[Black_Warrior]

Rahane is a fine batsman technically. He has to play. Gives solidity to the line up. I would have him rather than Jadhav and have him bat at 4.

That is absolutely true but the modern ODI pitches and changes in this format mean someone like Jadhav or a Chris Lynn or a Butler is a more 'valuable' player than a technically solid batsman like Rahane.

This is not a criticism of Rahane the batsmen, it's just that his style is not really compatible with today's ODI cricket. Look at Pakistan, they tried this with Asad Shafiq and Azhar Ali. Both technically correct batsmen far superior to Shoaib Mallik..yet Shoaib Mallik is their best LO batsman in the last 2 years.

 

[OverratedSanity]

While your overall point is true, rahane isn't the typical 'solid' batsman like Azhar or Shafiq. He's a fantastic stroke player and has a very attacking test game. It's a little inexplicable that he hasn't figured out odi cricket yet... A lot like vvs in that sense.

What has always let him down in shorter forms is his relative inability to rotate the strike. He's way too boundary reliant. And in a lineup that already has slow starters like Rohit and/or Dhawan, there's no room for him. It's a shame because if he can learn how to get some easy singles, he can be an awesome odi player.

 

[honestbharani]

I will still maintain Rohit will be an ideal #4 or #5 for us in ODIs as he has the power game against the spinners and can also rotate strike more freely from that position, something he struggles with at the top of the order. But after the amount of success he has had, and the fact that he seems to have genuinely improved in the areas of concern, he is easily our best opening bat at the moment. Therefore, its very tough to fit in Rahane into the side coz any spot he can be of use to us, there is someone better.

 

[Black_Warrior]

While your overall point is true, rahane isn't the typical 'solid' batsman like Azhar or Shafiq. He's a fantastic stroke player and has a very attacking test game. It's a little inexplicable that he hasn't figured out odi cricket yet... A lot like vvs in that sense.

What has always let him down in shorter forms is his relative inability to rotate the strike. He's way too boundary reliant. And in a lineup that already has slow starters like Rohit and/or Dhawan, there's no room for him. It's a shame because if he can learn how to get some easy singles, he can be an awesome odi player.

I would argue that Shafiq has a pretty attacking test game too and is a fantastic stroke player as well but he needs his first 30 balls to get to that game..and those 30 balls he struggles to rotate whether Test or ODI. That was not really incompatible in ODI cricket even 6-7 years ago. Inzy, Moyo were basically the same too.

But it's about team balance and as you pointed out, with slow starters like Rohit and Dhawan at the top, you can't fit Rahane in the playing XI..just like Pakistan can't play Shafiq/Azhar along with a Shehzad/Babar both of whom are slow starters.

 

[honestbharani]

I think the issue with Rahane, VVS, possibly Shafig types is that their ability to score depends on hitting through the infield and the gaps which is not all that easy once the field is spread out. An inability to play risk free strokes for singles means they are only ever useful in the top 3. And if the team has others who are better at it, then unfortunately these guys have to miss out, irrespective of their undeniable class in terms of batsmanship.

 

[Pratters]

40 and 35 over two years is not bad. I have faith in Rahane. He can play his strokes and is adept as well. For this series at least, he makes sense. Let's see whether he actually gets to play in the CL and how he fares.