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  • Cook

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Thread: who is the english player most likely to scratch the ball

  1. #31
    U19 12th Man sachin200's Avatar
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    I am 99% sure England has tampered with the ball because

    1. Bob Wills, an English man is accusing them of tampering
    2. Ravi Bopara being assigned the "shiner" tells you they actually had a team PLAN to it so even if he gets caught Cook doesn't get punished because of the Ashes coming up

  2. #32
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    I'm sort of midway between Furball and FJ's views.

    If there's proof then they should be dealt with accordingly. I don't think it warrants a ban for an entire Test Series though, what did Afridi get again? That said they should legalize ball tampering that doesn't involve the use of foreign objects. If the umpires feel they've damaged the ball too much in attempting to get reverse swing they can always just get a replacement. Pretty sure it's done heaps at lower levels anyways and banning it outright in international cricket makes little sense.

  3. #33
    International Coach social's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hendrix View Post
    obviously if you're just going to be throwing it on the ground then yes, but it sets a pretty dangerous precedent. People throw in on the bounce if they're trying to hit the stumps. That's perfectly legitimate. If there's a byproduct that means the ball gets scuffed up, so be it.

    To me it's perfectly reasonable for a fielding team to try to avoid the ground when they're looking to preserve conventional swing, and throw in on the bounce more when they're looking to achieve some reverse with an older ball.
    Firstly, the last thing that you want to do when trying to hit the stumps is throw on the bounce as it slows up the throw and has the potential to divert the ball's direction

    Secondly, it's illegal if sides are doing it to change the condition of the ball

  4. #34
    International Debutant Adders's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Senile Sentry View Post
    David Hopps, taking sucking up to new levels.
    I reckon it's a reasonable enough article and the headline is spot on IMO "Lots of rumour, but no hard evidence"

    There may very well be something here and I'm certainly not the sort of England fan that thinks our **** don't stink..........but until there is a complaint and some evidence put on the table, all it is rumour.


  5. #35
    U19 Debutant Senile Sentry's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Adders View Post
    I reckon it's a reasonable enough article and the headline is spot on IMO "Lots of rumour, but no hard evidence"

    There may very well be something here and I'm certainly not the sort of England fan that thinks our **** don't stink..........but until there is a complaint and some evidence put on the table, all it is rumour.
    Yes I agree nothing has been formally put in hold, but remember this was not the approach that CI or any media followed in case of Laxman Sivaramakrishnan's appointment to ICC panel. Also it is biased in tone - see the quote below:

    The ICC continues to insist that the ball that was changed during England's tie against Sri Lanka was misshapen, but there is confusion over whether the ball could still fit through the gauge. One England official said 'yes', so justifying Cook's anger that the ball had been changed; another England official later said 'no', which thereby supported the view that the ball was misshapen and dampened down gossip about ball tampering.

    When umpire Dar checked the ball in the Sri Lanka match, he hid it under a big blue towel so none of the cameras could see what was happening. Cricket has always given the public information it deserves on a need-to-know basis, but such checks need to be made publicly.

    Even if the ball didn't go through the gauge, it would not quite prove everything. One respected umpire used to carry around a gauge designed for women's cricket, where the ball is smaller. Whenever he suspected there was ball tampering going on, he would change the ball on the grounds that it had become misshapen and would not go through the gauge.
    What is he trying to suggest? Conspiracy on part of Aleem Dar and ICC?

    And adding to this is his pseudo-scientific claim that balls thrown full toss travel slower than what thrown one pitch.

    In slightly unrelated context, the dude was happily opening his pompous bulletin with the claim, "Sangakkara/Jayawardene and Dilshan never have had their hands on an ICC ODI Trophy". For a person who is the country editor of Cricinfo, that is an absurd miss and worse fact is despite pointing out, he never bothered to fix it.
    Last edited by Senile Sentry; 16-06-2013 at 01:16 AM.

  6. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by Senile Sentry View Post
    Yes I agree nothing has been formally put in hold, but remember this was not the approach that CI or any media followed in case of Laxman Sivaramakrishnan's appointment to ICC panel. Also it is biased in tone - see the quote below:
    Lol, **** off

    What is he trying to suggest? Conspiracy on part of Aleem Dar and ICC?
    Yeah, that bit was odd. Seems like they're trying to implicate Dar in all this.

  7. #37
    U19 Debutant Senile Sentry's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Daemon View Post
    Lol, **** off
    Classy.

  8. #38
    International Coach uvelocity's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Adders View Post
    Perhaps some of you more knowledgeable folk can explain this to me, cos this is something I've never understood...........

    So the theory behind reverse swing is that you want one side of the ball scuffed up while maintaining the shine on the other. Throwing the ball back in on the bounce is done to assist scuffing up the rough side, but when they throw the ball in on the bounce how on earth do they know what side will hit the dirt?? Surely there is just as much chance of damaging the side they are looking after??

    Clearly the theory works but it just doesn't make sense to me.
    throw the ball side arm addsy with the seam horizontal. also by shining the one side it's enough of a difference even though it hits both sides from time to time. in the first couple of overs you designate a rough side and pity the fool that ****s up and shines the wrong side.
    Quote Originally Posted by sledger View Post
    I just love all kinds of balls.

  9. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by Senile Sentry View Post
    Classy.
    Go on posting with that chip on your shoulder, can't wait to see you bunned.
    uvelocity and Furball like this.

  10. #40
    Cricket Web Staff Member Burgey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sachin200 View Post
    I am 99% sure England has tampered with the ball because

    1. Bob Wills, an English man is accusing them of tampering
    2. Ravi Bopara being assigned the "shiner" tells you they actually had a team PLAN to it so even if he gets caught Cook doesn't get punished because of the Ashes coming up
    Hard to argue with this. There's no underhanded technique the Poms won't stoop to.
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  11. #41
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    The question which doesn't seem to have been raised is why they were only 'tampering' with one of the two balls. Or is the point that the umpires had a suspicion, but nothing that could remotely constitute "proof", and therefore just changed one of the balls as a warning (they obviously couldn't have changed two of the balls for being 'out-of-shape' and covered it up).

    The flip side of this of course is their suspicion could have been totally groundless, which explains England's complaint at the ball being changed.

    A further suggestion somewhere between the two extremes might be this: there have been suggestions of umpires trying to clamp down on some practices designed to generate reverse swing - especially throwing the ball on the bounce (as pointed out in the cricinfo article above, this is difficult to enforce since one of the reasons for returning the ball on the bounce is that it arrives quicker. And frankly, why on earth should the practice be outlawed???)). Maybe the ball change was because they felt that its condition had been altered excessively - but not by 'scratching' (which frankly would be pretty obvious, as well as hard to cover up from the TV cameras), but simply by the range of other 'legitimate' practices that were going on. And if so, its no wonder that England were peed off by the decision, and many i think would conclude justifiably!

  12. #42
    International Coach Hurricane's Avatar
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    I am firmly against legalizing ball tampering through nails etc. I have batted against a team that picked the seam and it was extremely difficult to bat even though we were on an artificial.

    It is extremely easy to pick a seam with your thumb nail and most club sides do not do it (at least not in my grades)
    Quote Originally Posted by HeathDavisSpeed View Post
    I got great enjoyment in going to the game and shouting "WHY THE **** ISN'T THIS GAME BEING PLAYED AT THE BASIN?!>!?!?" to reasonably significant cheers from the sparse crowd
    Proudly against the bring back Bennett movement since he is injury prone and won't last 5 days.

  13. #43
    Cricket Web Staff Member fredfertang's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Burgey View Post
    Hard to argue with this. There's no underhanded technique the Poms won't stoop to.
    We're quick learners

  14. #44
    U19 Debutant Biryani Pillow's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sachin200 View Post
    I am 99% sure England has tampered with the ball because

    1. Bob Wills, an English man is accusing them of tampering


    Because Willis is a 'shock jock' type of analyst who, I suppose in order to claim he's valuable, often makes unfounded speculations and suggestions which, unfortunately, some guillible types fall for.

    Simple facts:

    If the ball is out of shape the umpires will change it.

    If the umpires think the ball has been tampered with they will cg=hange the ball and award penalty run.

    Nothing to see here folks.

    And you can't stop fielders throwing the ball on the bounce - which is often a way of getting it back in than a looping throw.

  15. #45
    International Coach uvelocity's Avatar
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    fielders bounce throwing from the ring or thereabouts when there is no chance of a runout on = scuffing up the ball

    in fact with their gun arms, bounce throwing from anywhere when there is no runout on = scuffing up the ball. and 90% of them can throw flat on the full from anywhere, which is preferable to a bounce throw when going for a run out anyway anyway

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