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Thread: India Squad Discussion

  1. #16
    International Vice-Captain Contra's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scaly piscine View Post
    Not really.

    Indian bowling is ****e, so they'll hope for pitches that negate bowling. Like when India won the 50 over World Cup, which made the game about 90% batting, 6% bowling and 4% fielding.
    The 50 over world cup didn't negate bowling, apart from Bangalore (which is generally flat), all other grounds had enough it it for the bowlers (especially slow bowlers) to exploit and take wickets, apart from a bit of minnow bashing and games at Bangalore, most other major games in India involved reasonable scores being scored and chased down.

    ----

    Coming to the squad, I have to say, I'm not a fan of Yuvraj being left out, fair enough he's not been at his best since his comeback but seriously, dude almost ALWAYS performs in ICC events, he's too big a match winner to leave out on a major ODI tourney. I don't mind Dhawan instead of GG in the openers slot, lol @ Vijay in ODIs. No Rahane OR Pujara? Seriously wtf

    Rohit Sharma opening LOL, a couple of decent IPL knocks and suddenly he's back in the squad <_<

    I personally don't have many complaints as far as the bowling goes, Irfan adds a lot of balance to the team along with Jadeja and Ashwin, Yadav is very hit or miss in ODI's, but I don't mind giving him a chance, he's a wicket taking bowler and I feel he's capable of making an impact, Bhuvi should hopefully do well. I'm still worried about Ishant, I just don't think he's good enough.
    Last edited by Contra; 04-05-2013 at 04:51 PM.

  2. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by Contra View Post
    The 50 over world cup didn't negate bowling, apart from Bangalore (which is generally flat), all other grounds had enough it it for the bowlers (especially slow bowlers) to exploit and take wickets, apart from a bit of minnow bashing and games at Bangalore, most other major games in India involved reasonable scores being scored and chased down.
    There's a difference between negating bowling skill and flat pitches.

    Really flat pitches will negate bowling skill pretty well. But so will a lot of slow pitches, even though the par score might only be 250. Obviously extremely bad pitches can negate bowler skill as a factor too, but those also negate batsman skill and it ends up being a lottery.

    Slow pitches can remove a lot of batsman skill if they're severe enough that certain shots aren't viable, whilst it can be easy for even poor batsmen to survive, instead it becomes about people heaving, slogging, clubbing or whatever you want to call it to score at any sort of rate. Wickets lost becomes a measure of how many big shots didn't come off, or how many ended up playing on to their stumps when the ball didn't come onto to the bat.

    A lot of World Cup 2011 pitches fitted into the latter category, as well as some being overly flat.
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  3. #18
    International Vice-Captain Contra's Avatar
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    I still fail to understand how the pitches used at the world cup were "slow pitches", apart from a few games involving England @ Chennai I can't recall any other pitches which can be categorized as slow.

  4. #19
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    Yeah, Vijay in the squad was a surprise...
    Pujara is injured right now so I guess it's OK to leave him out, they should really play him in ODIs after CT though. Rahane has been in poor ODI form lately to be honest, but hopefully he gets picked again after CT.
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  5. #20
    Cricketer Of The Year Arjun's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Contra View Post
    I still fail to understand how the pitches used at the world cup were "slow pitches", apart from a few games involving England @ Chennai I can't recall any other pitches which can be categorized as slow.
    Anything that makes Yuvraj compete with world class spinners is a slow pitch- and I wouldn't be surprised if those were cracked pitches that he made full use of.
    Quote Originally Posted by Cabinet96 View Post
    I think you're both right to an extent. The more bowler friendly a surface, the less bowling quality matters. It's on the flat pitches that the trump bowlers really made a difference. Obviously India not really having one, means their bowling suffers more than others when the pitches get a bit flatter.

    That being said, I think pitches like these help the Indian batsman far more than they hinder the bowling. Going up to Durham against the Saffa's and they could have been toast, but I'd back most of them to get big runs in this comp. Dhoni in particular could be unstoppable at the death facing cricket balls that are only 20 overs old on good batting decks.
    The Indians will fall short on flat decks, because their bowlers stand no chance whatsoever on these decks and flat-track bullies with brute force and power will smash them out of the match. Nobody in the Indian side can bat like that. We've seen decent Indian batting totals get chased down rapidly with few wickets down, and the Indian bowling concedes gargantuan totals that are beyond the reach of the batsmen, and they often implode each time they're facing a massive total. They're competitive on 50/50 pitches and pitches that are bowler-friendly, with extended batting.

    Someone like Vinay Kumar will revel in seamer-friendly conditions, but on flat decks, he's a flat-deck bunny in the hands of flat-deck bullies. That's a concern.
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  6. #21
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    We have the best odi batsmen ever and kohli. Raina isn't half bad either. Not one of the weaker lineups in the comp by any stretch. Obviously not the force it was earlier in the decade though, guys like Sachin, Yuvraj, Sehwag and Gambhir turning **** has been a massive blow.
    Last edited by Daemon; 06-05-2013 at 05:54 AM.

  7. #22
    Virat Kohli (c) Jono's Avatar
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    How has Yuvi being dropped been received in India?

  8. #23
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    It's 50-50. Some complain about how India's World Cup winner has been dropped, and then some others say his fitness and form are poor.

    Anyway, form is on the side of Karthik-Dhawan-Kohli-Dhoni-Raina-Sharma. They don't even need to play Vijay and Irfan in the main matches if they're not confident. The bowling will rotate between Umesh, Ishant, Vinay and Bhuvi for three seamers and ideally, spin twins are Ashwin and Mishra.

  9. #24
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    I don't mind the decision to drop Yuvraj when you look at it in isolation but some of the replacements hardly inspire confidence.
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  10. #25
    Hall of Fame Member honestbharani's Avatar
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    Think this might be the line up to start:


    Dhawan
    Rohit
    Kohli
    Raina
    Dhoni (c) (wk)
    Karthik
    Jadeja
    Ashwin
    Bhuvi
    Umesh
    Ishant
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  11. #26
    Regarding The Oval it might interest a few people to note that Durham - with one of the strongest if not the strongest seam attacks in County Cricket - have a 19yo debutant off-spinner playing who's into his 29th over. First day of the 4 day game.

  12. #27
    State Vice-Captain karan316's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scaly piscine View Post
    Not really.

    Indian bowling is ****e, so they'll hope for pitches that negate bowling. Like when India won the 50 over World Cup, which made the game about 90% batting, 6% bowling and 4% fielding.
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  13. #28
    State Vice-Captain karan316's Avatar
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    Yadav's selection is not a good sign for other youngsters because he is just there because he bowls a few yards quicker compared to others, Praveen Kumar should have been there in his place.

    And I wonder why people are considering Jadeja a direct choice for the playing XI, we will be playing only one spinner because the conditions won't be very useful for spin bowling, so either Mishra or Ashwin should be preferred. In case we choose to go with two spinners, we can pick both Mishra and Aswhin and both can bat and are way better bowlers.

    Irfan has just came back from an injury, he had done pretty well before that and in English conditions he will be even more useful, he can bat at no 7 with Ashwin at 8, Bhuvaneshwar at 9 allowing India to go with 5 bowlers and provide a bit more flexibility.


    The main issue will be death bowling,

    Bhuvaneshwar has improved his death bowling and is much better compared to others, Ishant can also bowl at the death(even though he was thrashed the other day), but its a bit scary that no one apart from these two look good enough for that job.

    Irfan can bowl anywhere except the last 5-6 overs, same goes for Mishra and Ashwin, and Yadav is pretty wayward and lacks the control required for ODIs, Vinay is a regular wicket taker, but his economy rate is never down.

    It will be interesting to see who makes the cut for the playing XI.
    Last edited by karan316; 10-05-2013 at 01:14 PM.

  14. #29
    Cricketer Of The Year Arjun's Avatar
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    Dhoni should bat at four. He is the best ODI batsman in the side, definitely. Six is too low. He has to bat out the bulk of the 50 overs. Raina and Rohit can do the finishing act instead. Dinesh Karthik and Dhawan can open- while Dhawan plays out a long innings, Karthik can go ballistic and smash more than a few.

    All Indian bowlers struggle on flat decks, and neither of Yadav and Praveen are an exception. India's pace attack has always struggled due to lack of pace, and the message has to be sent out so that we have more pace bowlers in contention for the India cap. Look at Ishwar Pandey- gobbled up over fifty wickets in Indian domestic FC games- but Chris Gayle gobbled him up in two overs and he never played in the IPL again.

    Jadeja's a part-timer extended to ten overs a game. I doubt if he'll get a wicket a game, let alone more wickets than either Mish/Ash.

    Irfan should not play. He's not getting enough wickets or runs. At best, he should play himself into form in the practice games. Bhuvi's batting has been very poor, and that's a matter of concern. He's not a celebrated all-rounder, but he's not that poor.

    They need to balance out that economy problem of Vinay with the much tighter economy of Bhuvi and Ashwin. But all economies will go for a toss on a flat deck, so it's a matter of who gets the top five out within thirty overs.

  15. #30
    Cricketer Of The Year Arjun's Avatar
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    In the form guide, Raina, Kohli, Rohit, Dhoni, and to a lesser extent, Karthik and Dhawan, are in good form. Mishra, supposedly irrelevant in the event, is the highest wicket-taker. He should play. Vinay Kumar has been chipping plenty of wickets on the flat decks despite the high economy. Bhuv Kumar's bowling has been tight, but not chippy, and his batting has been hideously poor. India needs him to score runs and take wickets, so that the irrelevant Jadeja can be shunted out. Ashwin has also been tight with the ball but poor with the bat.

    But the poor form of Umesh and Ishant is worrisome- how fortunes flip on flat decks. Wickets have dried up, and runs have started leaking. Both need to start chipping wickets regularly to make a difference. They have the pace and bounce, but they need to start taking wickets. Economy can be handled by Bhuv-Ash-Mish.

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