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Steve Smith

Daemon

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Absolutely. There's been a lame attempt at revisionism by some Aussies to absolve Smith of all blame. He definitely did a booboo, it's just that the punishment was very harsh.
It's just TJB really.

Smith even admits in the press conference that they had talked about using it (not sure if 'it' was referring to sandpaper or tampering in general) to even things up so it's not like he was completely oblivious to all this.
 

Spark

Global Moderator
Everyone also forgets how he subsequently let them lie about the tape instead of straight up confessing the use of sandpaper.
God that ****ing press conference. That literally is the critical source of all the problems that followed. Lehmann should have gone out there and said "we know something happened, match referee has been informed, we'll deal with it after the game" and everything would have been vastly, vastly better. It would have been unpleasant, and all three would have missed a fair few games, but IMO nothing like what was dished out.

There's is no doubt that the bans were ridiculous and way over the top, but I'm sorry but I think that was a direct result of the ridiculous cricket mindset and culture in Aus. A country that says their cricket captain holds the second most important job in the land and holds firm to the belief that they and only they play the "tough but fair" line.

The behaviour of that side on that tour really left CA no choice but to come down tough on them......You had the Prime Minister baying for blood and the public in general wanted tough action.

Yes it's ridiculous and I doubt it would have been such a big deal in any other cricket country.

Smith had to take the bullet as captain of that side, but to this day it pisses me off that Lehmann walked away pretty much untarnished.......he should have been held to account more so than Smith imo.
Yeah ultimately I agree. As cricket diehards it looks ridiculous to us because comparable incidents of ball tampering have never attracted such punishment or opprobium in the past, but to the general public - and in this case we were talking about a legitimately substantial portion of the population here - it just looked totally unacceptable and more than a few people wanted life bans (which would have been catastrophically stupid).

Lehmann to me really should have taken the hit for the captain from the start.
 
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TheJediBrah

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There's is no doubt that the bans were ridiculous and way over the top, but I'm sorry but I think that was a direct result of the ridiculous cricket mindset and culture in Aus. A country that says their cricket captain holds the second most important job in the land and holds firm to the belief that they and only they play the "tough but fair" line.

The behaviour of that side on that tour really left CA no choice but to come down tough on them......You had the Prime Minister baying for blood and the public in general wanted tough action.

Yes it's ridiculous and I doubt it would have been such a big deal in any other cricket country.

Smith had to take the bullet as captain of that side, but to this day it pisses me off that Lehmann walked away pretty much untarnished.......he should have been held to account more so than Smith imo.
I think your misrepresenting the cause of the outrage that led to the punishments. It was the media circus that supposedly forced CA's hand, more than a mindset or culture, and as previously explained it was fuelled almost entirely by those unfamiliar with cricket in general (read: unwashed ignorant masses).
 

TheJediBrah

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It's just TJB really.
It's really not. You have to look at the context every time I've absolved him of blame. I never say that he is completely blameless, it's in comparison to similar situations where he is relatively blameless despite receiving a much harsher punishment.
 

Adders

Cricketer Of The Year
I think your misrepresenting the cause of the outrage that led to the punishments. It was the media circus that supposedly forced CA's hand, more than a mindset or culture, and as previously explained it was fuelled almost entirely by those unfamiliar with cricket in general (read: unwashed ignorant masses).
Yeah, I agree that it wasn't the serious fans that were especially outraged but more the casuals. But it's the casuals that make up the numbers mate. You get 95k in the mcg on boxing day.......What percentage of them would you think are casuals?

But the mindset here is so prevalent that the Aussie team would never stoop to ball tempering......Only the dirty poms or cheating Pakistanis would do a thing like that. So when the **** hit the fan, your casual armchair cricket cricket fans were outraged and yes, that outrage was fuelled by the media circus.

As wrong as the bans were I think CA had to do it or else every sponsor would have run a mile and you'd have played your summers cricket in empty grounds.

If joe Root had done the same thing we'd have just shrugged it off.........we know were ****s and don't think we're better than everyone else. The ECB could have got away with a couple of match bans and no one in eng would have cared.
 

Burgey

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There's is no doubt that the bans were ridiculous and way over the top, but I'm sorry but I think that was a direct result of the ridiculous cricket mindset and culture in Aus. A country that says their cricket captain holds the second most important job in the land and holds firm to the belief that they and only they play the "tough but fair" line.

The behaviour of that side on that tour really left CA no choice but to come down tough on them......You had the Prime Minister baying for blood and the public in general wanted tough action.

Yes it's ridiculous and I doubt it would have been such a big deal in any other cricket country.

Smith had to take the bullet as captain of that side, but to this day it pisses me off that Lehmann walked away pretty much untarnished.......he should have been held to account more so than Smith imo.
Yeah but Turnbull is a toffee nosed **** of the highest order.

Worse than Lehmann was Sutherland - the bloke who's been in charge of CA for nearly two decades, who had a review post-2011 Ashes and who oversaw the culture within the side all along, and appointed people who saw it grow. He then had the gall, after doing all that, of implementing an inquiry into the ball tampering fiasco and came down hard on the very people he'd appointed, only to then get to resign at the time of his choosing, after pocketing a massive bonus and ride off into the sunset having left the joint in disrepair. Just a **** human.

In any event, I don't think Smith should ever captain again after his failure of leadership. The failure to intervene alone is enough imo to lose the captaincy, and the shenanigans afterwards enough that he doesn't get it back. Unlike lesser nations who appoint people after they're done for ball tampering, I don't think Australia should stoop so low and #crosstheline.

He was appointed very young and is probably too intense to actually be a good skipper at any age, given everything that role entails at international level. Just let him bat.

And bat.

And bat.
 
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TheJediBrah

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Keep in mind that he's probably genuinely on the spectrum, and how would you expect him to stand up to a bloke like Warner or know how to act in the Cape Town situation culminating in the press conference. Definitely shouldn't be captain.

But the mindset here is so prevalent that the Aussie team would never stoop to ball tempering......Only the dirty poms or cheating Pakistanis would do a thing like that. So when the **** hit the fan, your casual armchair cricket cricket fans were outraged and yes, that outrage was fuelled by the media circus.
I've never seen this with anyone I know, I've only really heard about this supposed mindset on this website. I think we're probably both right, that mindset probably exists but mostly among the general population who don't really know anything about cricket.
 
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StephenZA

Hall of Fame Member
Keep in mind that he's probably genuinely on the spectrum, and how would you expect him to stand up to a bloke like Warner or know how to act in the Cape Town situation culminating in the press conference. Definitely shouldn't be captain.

I've never seen this with anyone I know, I've only really heard about this supposed mindset on this website. I think we're probably both right, that mindset probably exists but mostly among the general population who don't really know anything about cricket.
Is this been confirmed.... or are we seriously diagnosing a person from a distance on TV because of his natural quirks?
 

Adders

Cricketer Of The Year
Keep in mind that he's probably genuinely on the spectrum, and how would you expect him to stand up to a bloke like Warner or know how to act in the Cape Town situation culminating in the press conference. Definitely shouldn't be captain.



I've never seen this with anyone I know, I've only really heard about this supposed mindset on this website. I think we're probably both right, that mindset probably exists but mostly among the general population who don't really know anything about cricket.
Lol, get you talking about doctored wickets........you've got it too.
 

TheJediBrah

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Lol, get you talking about doctored wickets........you've got it too.
no m8, everything I've said about doctored wickets is completely factual. I'm not pretending that certain other countries have done it recently and Australia don't. It's a fact.
 

TheJediBrah

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Define recent.
Last 4-5 years. Or even last 2-3 years. You have to look at the context. Every time I've bitched about pitch doctoring it's when Aus are being the victims of it at that very time, when more often than not we serve up wickets suiting the touring side as much as possible.

I don't care if Aus did it 20 years ago. Or 10 years ago. It's irrelevant. I'm not trying to claim a moral superiority. I'm stating my annoyance that other countries are using every tool in the shed to make things hard for us and we're catering to their every need when they come here. I'd love for us to make India and Sri Lanka play at Brisbane and the WACA and make every pitch as hard and bouncy as possible.
 
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stephen

Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
Smith basically got punished more for the press conference than the act. It was the height of stupidity and the act of a man who believed that all he had to do was get up on stage and be angry and that would absolve him. It worked post- Hobart.

The thing that grinds my gears the most about the punishments though was that Bancroft got off lighter than the other two. People think he was bullied into it by Warner and maybe he was, but that really is no excuse. He was the one who did the deed, tried to cover it up and then lied to the press about it.

Smith's punishment was far too harsh given his role in the affair, but as I said earlier, he was punished for the press conference more than the act.

On the topic of pitch doctoring, TJB is right to an extent. CA always tailors the pitches to suit the touring team. India never play on the bouncier wickets and we generally make them as flat as possible. CA is more concerned with tv revenue than it is with their side winning. In fact tv revenue is pretty much all they care about, hence the Foxtel deal over the c10 deal (Foxtel+7 was 1.2bn over 6 years, c10 was 960m over 5 years).
 

TheJediBrah

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Smith basically got punished more for the press conference than the act. It was the height of stupidity and the act of a man who believed that all he had to do was get up on stage and be angry and that would absolve him. It worked post- Hobart.

The thing that grinds my gears the most about the punishments though was that Bancroft got off lighter than the other two. People think he was bullied into it by Warner and maybe he was, but that really is no excuse. He was the one who did the deed, tried to cover it up and then lied to the press about it.

Smith's punishment was far too harsh given his role in the affair, but as I said earlier, he was punished for the press conference more than the act.

On the topic of pitch doctoring, TJB is right to an extent. CA always tailors the pitches to suit the touring team. India never play on the bouncier wickets and we generally make them as flat as possible. CA is more concerned with tv revenue than it is with their side winning. In fact tv revenue is pretty much all they care about, hence the Foxtel deal over the c10 deal (Foxtel+7 was 1.2bn over 6 years, c10 was 960m over 5 years).
I wouldn't imply that they're doing it on purpose though. It's mostly just worked out that way. This last summer with India refusing to play at Brisbane though was something else, can't believe we capitulated in that manner. (BCCI probably just offered CA a whole lot of money to not have to play at Brisbane tbh)
 

Adders

Cricketer Of The Year
On the topic of pitch doctoring, TJB is right to an extent. CA always tailors the pitches to suit the touring team. India never play on the bouncier wickets and we generally make them as flat as possible. CA is more concerned with tv revenue than it is with their side winning. In fact tv revenue is pretty much all they care about, hence the Foxtel deal over the c10 deal (Foxtel+7 was 1.2bn over 6 years, c10 was 960m over 5 years).
So the pitches are doctored then......There's just a different motivation behind it.

Edit

And I don't think they are tailored to suit the touring sides, they tailored to ensure the tests go 5 days.
 
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Spark

Global Moderator
I've agreed with TJB's point about horrible dead Aus pitches in the past but I don't get complaining about it here. The pitches in this series have been a lot drier than most people were expecting or indeed hoping for. Mind you, that doesn't excuse a lot of the less disciplined English bowling as there's been consistent seam movement early on in every Test even if there's been less swing than 15.
 

stephen

Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
I'm not complaining about the English pitches at all. This has been an excellent test series where the pitches have offered different challenges at different times.

Really, test cricket in England is pretty good to watch usually.
 

TheJediBrah

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I've agreed with TJB's point about horrible dead Aus pitches in the past but I don't get complaining about it here. The pitches in this series have been a lot drier than most people were expecting or indeed hoping for. Mind you, that doesn't excuse a lot of the less disciplined English bowling as there's been consistent seam movement early on in every Test even if there's been less swing than 15.
Spark no one's complaining about it relation to this series at all. Adders just brought it up in the context of Aussie's claiming moral superiority (which is wrong, but that's another matter).

So the pitches are doctored then......There's just a different motivation behind it.

Edit

And I don't think they are tailored to suit the touring sides, they tailored to ensure the tests go 5 days.
So you agree with me after all? What have you been arguing about all these years then?
 

morgieb

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the second one
Not cool. The internet's obession with trying to retrospectively diagnose people with autism is pretty dire.

I have extreme doubts that someone with Asperger's would have that good of a hand-eye co-ordination anyway.
 

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