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Thread: Mistakes in selection on this tour by England

  1. #31
    Hall of Fame Member flibbertyjibber's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by oblongballs View Post
    You wouldn't pick Ali who has had an exceptional 18 months in tests and was THE test player for England in the summer?

    I think not selecting Rashid and Plunkett to even be in the squad are the two big omissions. Not bringing the best fast bowler in England over was another problem, speaking of Porter. I agree with Root being at 3.

    Other than that, theres not much England could do. They dont really have an exceptional batsman doing the rounds that is really standing up for selection and could strengthen the middle order. There is no such opener either.

    Basically, Australia have the same problem in reverse, or HAD. They were unable to come to England and win a series, maybe this team could be different.
    Porter is injured anyway. No idea if he will be fit for NZ if we need him there though.

  2. #32
    Cricket Spectator Gremlin's Avatar
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    England have made selection errors even within the current squad, it's been highlighted in this thread already that Bairstow should have played above Ali all along and Ball wasn't match fit.

    I think Ali hasn't been match ready either, the injuries have prevented him having meaningful time out in the middle, however, in selecting a rookie spinner as back up then there has been no alternative but to play him. People who have been calling for Ali to be dropped have short term memories, he has been bowling very well in the 12 months prior to this tour and his batting has blossomed.

    I have long been an advocate of Bairstow playing as a specialist batsman only and picking Foakes but in the absence of Stokes I can see why the selectors were nervous about this option.

    Selector positives? Malan obviously, I wasn't sure about him but he has grown into the role and I genuinely hope he goes forward. Stoneman done just enough although he probably should have been an opener for England over the last three years and been completely comfortable at the top of the order for some time. Vince? It could still happen for him I guess. He has this winter to prove it finally.

    England have been unlucky with injuries too of course but that should never be an excuse for some of the more obvious selection shortcomings.

  3. #33
    Evil Scotsman Furball's Avatar
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    Bairstow batting above Moeen is a minor quibble, it hardly counts as a major error.
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  4. #34
    Eyes not spreadsheets marc71178's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by oblongballs View Post
    I think not selecting Rashid and Plunkett to even be in the squad are the two big omissions. Not bringing the best fast bowler in England over was another problem, speaking of Porter.
    Rashid - proven not up to Tests.
    Plunkett - doesn't have stamina for red ball cricket.
    Porter - injured.

    Glad you're not a selector.
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  5. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by Furball View Post
    Bairstow batting above Moeen is a minor quibble, it hardly counts as a major error.
    I also don't think decisions such as that are decided by the selectors, so would be most unfair to hold them accountable for that.
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  6. #36
    State Regular GuyFromLancs's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by oblongballs View Post
    You wouldn't pick Ali who has had an exceptional 18 months in tests and was THE test player for England in the summer?

    I think not selecting Rashid and Plunkett to even be in the squad are the two big omissions. Not bringing the best fast bowler in England over was another problem, speaking of Porter. I agree with Root being at 3.

    Other than that, theres not much England could do. They dont really have an exceptional batsman doing the rounds that is really standing up for selection and could strengthen the middle order. There is no such opener either.

    Basically, Australia have the same problem in reverse, or HAD. They were unable to come to England and win a series, maybe this team could be different.
    It makes little odds. Finger spinners achieve zero in Australia.

    Swan played pretty well 10/11 but he was part of a team on a rampage. He was then forced into retirement after 2 tests in 13/14 because (IMO) he wanted his legacy to be a bowling average of <30, and that was about to be exploded.

    Ali was never going to anything with the ball. With the bat maybe, yes. He deserved looking at by that metric.

    Personally down under (as a general rule of thumb), I'd go 4 seamers and a one or two pie chucking offies in the batting order. IN short, if Ali makes it as a batsman, he plays. If not, it becomes irrelevant
    Last edited by GuyFromLancs; 21-12-2017 at 07:14 AM.
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  7. #37
    International Debutant S.Kennedy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by marc71178 View Post
    Rashid - proven not up to Tests.
    Plunkett - doesn't have stamina for red ball cricket.

    Porter - injured.

    Glad you're not a selector.
    In case you didn't realise, we are not exactly spoilt for choice by way of fast bowlers and spinners. I mean I'd agree with you about those selections if we were still producing Harmys, Flintoffs and Swanns (or were producing Cumminses and Lyons) but we are not. Currently, amidst all of these medium-paced dibbly dobblers we seem to produce, Rashid and Plunkett look like perfectly valid selections. The only fast bowlers we have are Wood, Plunkett and Jamie Overton, the first of which you deem ''rubbish'', the second lacking ''stamina'' and I'm not sure I'd want to hear your opinion on J. Overton but he is injured irrespective. And if Rashid is ''not up to tests'' what does that say about Moeen Ali?

    I keep seeing people criticise people's England selections yet I'm yet to hear a much better alternative.
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  8. #38
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    england were much better when they were selecting South Africans.

  9. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by S.Kennedy View Post
    In case you didn't realise, we are not exactly spoilt for choice by way of fast bowlers and spinners. I mean I'd agree with you about those selections if we were still producing Harmys, Flintoffs and Swanns (or were producing Cumminses and Lyons) but we are not. Currently, amidst all of these medium-paced dibbly dobblers we seem to produce, Rashid and Plunkett look like perfectly valid selections. The only fast bowlers we have are Wood, Plunkett and Jamie Overton, the first of which you deem ''rubbish'', the second lacking ''stamina'' and I'm not sure I'd want to hear your opinion on J. Overton but he is injured irrespective. And if Rashid is ''not up to tests'' what does that say about Moeen Ali?

    I keep seeing people criticise people's England selections yet I'm yet to hear a much better alternative.
    That's the thing you see, it's easy to say he's got weaknesses here, he shouldn't play because of this that and the other. You can make a case for plenty of the options not getting selected but that's where we're at right now. It's easy to say no way should he play, it's not so easy offering a really viable option. I personally didn't agree with the Vince selection, he's done ok and maybe it was a hunch selection that Aussie conditions would suit him, however, it's difficult to lambast the selectots too much because they didn't really have many better options that were beating down the door to be included.

  10. #40
    Hall of Fame Member flibbertyjibber's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TNT View Post
    england were much better when they were selecting South Africans.
    Yeah but one of them was a huge ****.

  11. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by S.Kennedy View Post
    Vince is getting some abuse yet Vince is (marginally) averaging/scored more runs than Joe Root in this series (and massively out-performed the woeful Ali and Cook), and has the third best highest English score. If anything it is your experienced players - Cook, Broad, Ali and (slightly less so) Root - who have been a colossal let down and your Malans, Overtons and to a lesser extent Vince who have proven their critics wrong.
    I said Vince has done ok if you read my OP. He was unlucky in the last test, who knows how many he would have made without the freak delivery. I would have gone with Ballance at 4 before the series. So if I move Root to 3 I'd rather bring in Ballance at 4 as a rotation. The series is dead and when people are dragged out all the way to Australia away from family and friends I think it's fair to give Ballance a game in a dead series. Vince has a very poor career test average still to be fair. It would be a rotation though rather than a dropping. There is nothing to choose really between Ballance and Vince still. Ballance in his defence still has an ok test average above Vince, Malan and Stoneman

  12. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by Burgey View Post
    The weird thing about the current side is who could they drop to move Bairstow up and play Foakes? Malan and Vince have done a good job and neither Cook nor Root is going anywhere. The only real solution to me is drop Moeen and run with a four man attack, but thatís awfully sameish.
    Moeen averages less than 20 with the bat in series and over 100 with ball..it makes sense to drop him either for Foakes or a bowler (depending if you want 4 or 5 man attack. and depending how better you think bairstow would be up the order without gloves. I'd go with 4 man attack with a spinner and part-time options to rest bowlers)

  13. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by GuyFromLancs View Post
    It makes little odds. Finger spinners achieve zero in Australia.

    Swan played pretty well 10/11 but he was part of a team on a rampage. He was then forced into retirement after 2 tests in 13/14 because (IMO) he wanted his legacy to be a bowling average of <30, and that was about to be exploded.

    Ali was never going to anything with the ball. With the bat maybe, yes. He deserved looking at by that metric.

    Personally down under (as a general rule of thumb), I'd go 4 seamers and a one or two pie chucking offies in the batting order. IN short, if Ali makes it as a batsman, he plays. If not, it becomes irrelevant
    oblong balls clearly doesn't understand that different players fair differently depending on the conditions (batsmen and bowlers)

    4 seamers is another option..i like 3 seamers and a spinner as the spinner can bowl plenty of overs and then you rotate the seamers more to rest them and they are fresher when they bowl .4 seamers can work fine though with Malan/Root as options to rest them in theory. I'd like to give Crane a go though for a game.

  14. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by Burgey View Post
    Yeah i donít want to sound too negative, but England playing a four man attack including a rookie leg spinner on Boxing Day wouldnít do much save get Smith closer to bradmanís all time Wisden rating.
    England can't get Smith out anyway. A leg-spinner can be a decent option in Aus to a right-hander getting tons of runs. Ironically Bradman (who you mention) didn't get his 100+ average due to a leggie..

  15. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by Furball View Post
    Even the likes of Stoneman and Vince haven't been brilliant.

    Stoneman's hasn't embarrassed himself and has tended to be in for a longish time to his credit.
    Neither have done great at all. Just look at their series averages...you need 40+ average at this level to not have people questioning your place. They were after Ballance when he still averaged over 40. He's still averaging more than Stoneman and Vince comfortably and more than Malan. Bear in mind too Ballance bats best at 4. 3 isn't a natural position for him.

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