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Thread: England Lions & England Tour Game in Perth

  1. #61
    International Vice-Captain Starfighter's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by the big bambino View Post
    I just love it when fixated coaches cop it. Harris is 5'10" and Johnson just over 6' which is tall but not the tall that Saker likes. same with Lehmann and pace. I kind of enjoyed it when Anderson swung hoops around our guys in Adelaide just to remind Lehmann his preference for speed is an unhealthy fetish. You could point at the scoreboard but Philander and Abbott dominated us while rarely exceeding 135ks.

    Makes you wonder if Lee Johnson Tait S Clarke D Flemming and McGrath all started out at the same time and Lehmann was the coach there'd be a good chance we'd have never seen the last three.
    Oh yes. Certain coaches, selectors and people seem to forget that the best judge of a bowler is not height or pace but wickets. I can see the advantage of height, but it's way secondary to accuracy and some other abilities.
    I myself think that height makes a better mediocre bowler - a tall bowler will do a little better than a short bowler of mediocre ability. But so many of the world's greatest bowlers have been under 6' it makes the obsession look like a joke. Same with express pace.

    The tall bowlers thing in '13 was especially noteworthy because it was prescriptive coaching that screwed Finn up in the first place.
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  2. #62
    Cricket Spectator Tannhauser's Avatar
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    Itís easy to argue that England have stopped producing the top bowlers, but Iím still left scratching my head that none of Finn, Tremlett, Onions and Bresnan didnít go on to become first-change Test bowlers.
    Jones! Bowden!

  3. #63
    International Debutant S.Kennedy's Avatar
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    Sidebottom wasn't rated during the Flowers era either.
    Future Proof

  4. #64
    International Debutant S.Kennedy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tannhauser View Post
    It’s easy to argue that England have stopped producing the top bowlers, but I’m still left scratching my head that none of Finn, Tremlett, Onions and Bresnan didn’t go on to become first-change Test bowlers.
    Well as I said Onions wasn't rated under the Flowers regime. Their obsession with Finn is comical. He had these hilariously bad spells and also picked up some injuries - I think the ECB would've liked to have had Finn as their third bowler but it never quite worked out. They keep going back to him time-and-time again - indeed, he'd be in Australia now if not for injury. Bresnan did have a fairly good run in fairness (23 matches, 2009-2013).


  5. #65
    International Regular theegyptian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by S.Kennedy View Post
    In the case of Onions, he was barely given a chance (nine test matches). He wasn't favoured by Andy Flower. 70 wickets at 18.45 (2013) one would assume would've got Onions on the '13-14 Ashes flight but nope.
    Onions had lost his pace by that point, presumably due to his back problems. He was more deserving that Tremlett admittedly, although I wouldn't have taken either of them iirc.

  6. #66
    International Debutant S.Kennedy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by theegyptian View Post
    Onions had lost his pace by that point, presumably due to his back problems. He was more deserving that Tremlett admittedly, although I wouldn't have taken either of them iirc.
    70 wickets at 18.45 is not going to get you on the flight? Although I bet he is pleased he wasn't selected now!

  7. #67
    International Vice-Captain Starfighter's Avatar
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    At least we know that England struggling to produce fast bowlers is not a new thing, and we *know* the cause and solution:



    I must say it remains the case they haven't produced someone who's good and genuinely quick since Willis.
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  8. #68
    International Regular theegyptian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by S.Kennedy View Post
    70 wickets at 18.45 is not going to get you on the flight? Although I bet he is pleased he wasn't selected now!
    Guys like Rushworth and Masters have had similar hauls in championship cricket. We haven't taken them to Aus. He'd had got smashed. He was bowling 80mph by that point - and had been taking his wickets in a very attacking manner (attacked the stumps, bowling full, regular bouncer) which at 80mph in Aus would have been cannon fodder imo especially if he was third seamer in the team. Pre injury he was looking a class act iirc.

  9. #69
    International Vice-Captain Starfighter's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by theegyptian View Post
    and had been taking his wickets in a very attacking manner (attacked the stumps, bowling full, regular bouncer) which at 80mph in Aus would have been cannon fodder imo.
    I'm not sure England's results this tour agree with you. Or South Africa's last tour - bearing in mind they were bowling just around 130 a lot.

  10. #70
    International Debutant S.Kennedy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by theegyptian View Post
    Guys like Rushworth and Masters have had similar hauls in championship cricket. We haven't taken them to Aus. He'd had got smashed. He was bowling 80mph by that point - and had been taking his wickets in a very attacking manner (attacked the stumps, bowling full, regular bouncer) which at 80mph in Aus would have been cannon fodder imo especially if he was third seamer in the team. Pre injury he was looking a class act iirc.
    It was I believe the season after 2013 he lost his pace, or maybe even 2015. Onions was still somewhere at his peak 2013

  11. #71
    International Regular theegyptian's Avatar
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    Lancashire CCC‏Verified account @LancsCCC

    Good news from Perth where @LancsCCC bowler @SaqMahmood25 has taken 4/14 from four overs as @englandcricket Lions beat @ScorchersBBL by 12 runs. ��


    Shame he was injured for most of the white ball stuff for lancs this past year. Someone who could push for a world cup place if he gets regular cricket. Would offer that something a little different to the bowling unit. Gets that low arm in ducker yorker going. Pacy too.

  12. #72
    International Vice-Captain Starfighter's Avatar
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    Just had a look at this Mahmood fella. Looks more promising than the previous one. Bowling action reminds me a bit of Brett Lee actually, although he bends over sideways rather than going forwards. Has some pace but I wonder if he has some back injuries in his future.

    Also it's weird when you're getting to talking about players your age. Suddenly I don't feel quite so young.

  13. #73
    Cricket Web Staff Member Woodster's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by theegyptian View Post
    Lancashire CCC‏Verified account @LancsCCC

    Good news from Perth where @LancsCCC bowler @SaqMahmood25 has taken 4/14 from four overs as @englandcricket Lions beat @ScorchersBBL by 12 runs. ��


    Shame he was injured for most of the white ball stuff for lancs this past year. Someone who could push for a world cup place if he gets regular cricket. Would offer that something a little different to the bowling unit. Gets that low arm in ducker yorker going. Pacy too.
    Yes he played club cricket in our league a couple of seasons ago, but with Lancs commitments he only played maybe a handful of games, sadly I didn't have the pleasure of getting peppered by him! Word was he was fairly rapid.
    http://batallday.blogspot.com/ - Cricket blog dedicated to domestic cricket.

  14. #74
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    Quote Originally Posted by Starfighter View Post
    I don't think Onions was tall enough for David Saker. I just read a Wisden article where he talks about how he loves tall bowlers because they can get more out of the pitch blahdy blah. Went well in 13/14 didn't it?

    Also said he got Anderson and Broad to shorten their length to fit with his bowling dry strategy. Also works well in Australia, not.
    Always felt he was a straight up competitor for Anderson but not quite as good. Unlucky not to play more.

  15. #75
    International Vice-Captain Starfighter's Avatar
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    Gawd, I just looked up Onion's last test. Tino Best's 95, 'Yeah Viv Talk Nah', Adrian Barath (he sure went places), Deonarine, Asad Fudadin, Ravi Rampaul opening the bowling. A lot going on for a match that only saw 1 1/2 innings. Only one player from that WI team in the current team playing NZ, Powell of all people (I hope Bravo returns). Only two left from that England team too.

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