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Thread: Walk or not walk

  1. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by Furball View Post
    I've not once framed it as being about respect for the umpire. I just don't think it's right for players to be making the decisions for him.
    Fair, but this argument still makes little sense to me. Why are we better off leaving an umpire to guess at whether a batsman has hit it, if the batsman knows he has? Not that I really buy into the idea that you always know if you hit it. Should fielders claim grassed catches, knowing that it's been grassed, because it's the umpires job to make a decision?

    I don't actually have a very strong view one way or the other on walking. On balance I am slightly pro-walking but can see a couple of reasonable arguments against it. But I find the argument that decisions should be left to the umpire strange, not least given it leads to more incorrect decisions but also because I don't think it is absolutely only the umpire's job to make decisions. Players play their part too, if they know whether they've hit it or not, caught it or not etc.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Furball View Post
    I've not once framed it as being about respect for the umpire. I just don't think it's right for players to be making the decisions for him.
    That's equally spurious. There isn't a batsman been born who thinks to himself I'm not going to walk when I'm out because it's not right for me to make that decision. Batsman don't walk for one reason only - to gain advantage personally and for their team. The umpire would much rather the batsman makes the decision for himself than try to con him into making a wrong one.

  3. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by Furball View Post
    I've not once framed it as being about respect for the umpire. I just don't think it's right for players to be making the decisions for him.
    What are your thoughts on fielders shaking their head to an umpire when they say the ball didn't quite carry to them?
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    Evil Scotsman Furball's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jono View Post
    What are your thoughts on fielders shaking their head to an umpire when they say the ball didn't quite carry to them?
    That's different because the fielding side is meant to appeal for things like that.
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  5. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by Furball View Post
    That's different because the fielding side is meant to appeal for things like that.
    Usually in such cases there's an appeal which is then withdrawn. So presumably you think that once an appeal has been made it's up to the umpire and an appeal should never be withdrawn?

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    What about fielding sides appealing for LBWs they know aren't out? I've seen on numerous times this series both captains give a full blooded appeal from slip only to gesture to their bowler that they won't DRS it because they think batsmen has hit it.

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    Cricket Web Staff Member Howe_zat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 91Jmay View Post
    What about fielding sides appealing for LBWs they know aren't out? I've seen on numerous times this series both captains give a full blooded appeal from slip only to gesture to their bowler that they won't DRS it because they think batsmen has hit it.
    That's just appeal first think later. There's so much riding on taking a wicket that in the split second between pad hit and appeal there's pretty much a reflex to do it.

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    I still can't get over England reviewing that Stokes lbw 'shout'
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tom Halsey View Post
    Yeah I've never heard an umpire thank a batsman for not walking, but I've heard plenty thank a batsman for walking. The whole "respect for the umpire" thing is a laughable argument. Anyone who buys it should chat to some actual umpires and see what the vast majority see as more respectful. And as Fred says, walking after an umpire has already given you not out is a very different thing from walking before he has made a decision.

    LT also has a fair point regarding bowlers who appeal knowing it's not out, which is equivalent AFAIC. Fielders claiming catches when they know it's hit the ground also falls into this category but for some reason is looked upon far worse.
    I don't mind non walkers at all, but I tell them (if they inform me that is their way) that, should I give them out on a bad one I don't want to see any reaction or hear about it later. I tend to find walkers are also less likely so react badly if given incorrectly.

    In my League we are getting very heavy on player dissent - one of our Panel does Minor Counties as well and is VERY hot on this. I've issued two discipline reports this summer (with my colleague) - one for the batsman 'showing his bat' after being given LBW, the other for the batsman shouting "You must be joking!" having been given. A tip for players - apologise immediately after the game, it may save you a ban.

    I had an interesting chat before a game last summer with a former (pretty good) county player who I now know reasonably well. He is one of the nicest guys you could ever meet and was well liked on the circuit and by members of his County club. He observed that, when encountering a 'new' umpire players, even in very good club cricket, will 'work' him and try and see if they can gain an advantage . It's not nasty, this chap wouldn't be, it's just natural. After they meet the umpire 3 or 4 times this tends to stop.

    I'm beginning to find it a minor issue that, when fielders think a batsman has edged one, not been given and not walked, they start to have a go at the batsman. I've started to suggest to fielders that, should I be the umpire involved, their issue should be with me for not giving it, not the batsman "And you don't want an issue with me, do you? . Tends to work quite well.

  10. #70
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    Something I've seen quite a bit of this summer in village green level cricket is the batsman who doesn't think he's out just subtly making the DRS review signal. Just letting people know he shouldn't have been given out but without openly displaying dissent.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lillian Thomson View Post
    Something I've seen quite a bit of this summer in village green level cricket is the batsman who doesn't think he's out just subtly making the DRS review signal. Just letting people know he shouldn't have been given out but without openly displaying dissent.
    I'll bet that gets the fielding side chirping

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    Quote Originally Posted by Biryani Pillow View Post
    I don't mind non walkers at all, but I tell them (if they inform me that is their way) that, should I give them out on a bad one I don't want to see any reaction or hear about it later. I tend to find walkers are also less likely so react badly if given incorrectly.

    In my League we are getting very heavy on player dissent - one of our Panel does Minor Counties as well and is VERY hot on this. I've issued two discipline reports this summer (with my colleague) - one for the batsman 'showing his bat' after being given LBW, the other for the batsman shouting "You must be joking!" having been given. A tip for players - apologise immediately after the game, it may save you a ban.

    I had an interesting chat before a game last summer with a former (pretty good) county player who I now know reasonably well. He is one of the nicest guys you could ever meet and was well liked on the circuit and by members of his County club. He observed that, when encountering a 'new' umpire players, even in very good club cricket, will 'work' him and try and see if they can gain an advantage . It's not nasty, this chap wouldn't be, it's just natural. After they meet the umpire 3 or 4 times this tends to stop.

    I'm beginning to find it a minor issue that, when fielders think a batsman has edged one, not been given and not walked, they start to have a go at the batsman. I've started to suggest to fielders that, should I be the umpire involved, their issue should be with me for not giving it, not the batsman "And you don't want an issue with me, do you? . Tends to work quite well.
    I would definitely react to a bad one but I would also seek the umpire out between innings or after the game to apologise if after calming down if I felt I was out of line.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lillian Thomson View Post
    Something I've seen quite a bit of this summer in village green level cricket is the batsman who doesn't think he's out just subtly making the DRS review signal. Just letting people know he shouldn't have been given out but without openly displaying dissent.
    As soon as DRS came in, our umpire association classed making that sign as dissent.

    I've had one kid do it, clearly not in a dissent-ful manner, so pretty promptly shut it down with "Umpire's Call, mate".
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lillian Thomson View Post
    Something I've seen quite a bit of this summer in village green level cricket is the batsman who doesn't think he's out just subtly making the DRS review signal. Just letting people know he shouldn't have been given out but without openly displaying dissent.
    Someone used this a couple of years back in club cricket, young kid who thought he was the business...fairly easy retort to let him know until such time as he's good enough to play televised matches, he can tell his story walking. No crowd, no cameras here junior.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lillian Thomson View Post
    Something I've seen quite a bit of this summer in village green level cricket is the batsman who doesn't think he's out just subtly making the DRS review signal. Just letting people know he shouldn't have been given out but without openly displaying dissent.
    I've had that one from a bowler, on an LBW appeal but it was done in a jocular manner - as was my reply "I've reviewed it, still not out ". Some I know would have reported that. Depending upon the way in which it was done I might now mention it in the post match report but it could mean the full disciplinary form.

    Quote Originally Posted by Furball View Post
    I would definitely react to a bad one but I would also seek the umpire out between innings or after the game to apologise if after calming down if I felt I was out of line.
    You are out of line by showing ANY dissent,. An apology, if it was the first time you had been reported for it, may result in a mere reprimand (it may not). No apology or a repeat offence and you could count on missing a game or two.

    The advice given by a very good former player to the lads at the school where he coaches is "walk off quickly and quietly, sit in the changing room for ten minutes, and then do nothing."

    Quite right.

    And if we hear equipment being thrown in the changing room it would certainly be noted.

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