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Thread: Nightwatchman theory ...

  1. #31
    Eternal Optimist / Cricket Web Staff Member GIMH's Avatar
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    I dunno about you Riggins but I feel it's a debate we need to have
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  2. #32
    State 12th Man wiff's Avatar
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    I'm not sure we should be looking at what the nightwatchmen's average is decreasing by,
    but rather what the protected batter's average is increased by (if any).

    I'm in favour of night-watchmen, it adds drama and comedy.
    Has there ever been a nightwatchman before a lunch break?
    Instead of nightwatchman, the sacrificial batsman who comes
    in before lunch could be called the lamb sandwich (or such like).

  3. #33
    Virat Kohli (c) Jono's Avatar
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    People always talk about a nightwatchman when it fails but never when it works.
    "I am very happy and it will allow me to have lot more rice."

    Eoin Morgan on being given a rice cooker for being Man of the Match in a Dhaka Premier Division game.

  4. #34
    Cricketer Of The Year zaremba's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wiff View Post
    I'm not sure we should be looking at what the nightwatchmen's average is decreasing by,
    but rather what the protected batter's average is increased by (if any).

    I'm in favour of night-watchmen, it adds drama and comedy.
    Has there ever been a nightwatchman before a lunch break?
    Instead of nightwatchman, the sacrificial batsman who comes
    in before lunch could be called the lamb sandwich (or such like).
    I think Middlesex under Brearley used to do this on occasion.


  5. #35
    Cricketer Of The Year zaremba's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jono View Post
    People always talk about a nightwatchman when it fails but never when it works.
    We're talking about it in this thread and I'm not aware of it having failed recently (other than the fact that it's always a fail, even when it works, if you see what I mean).

  6. #36
    Cricket Web Staff Member fredfertang's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by zaremba View Post
    I think Middlesex under Brearley used to do this on occasion.
    Reading Lawyers CC adopted this tactic once against Yattendon CC in the late 1980s when I was sent in at number three just before tea, rather than my usual place in the bottom three. Yattendon were noted for having two distinctly sharp bowlers, and also for producing the finest cricket teas in the area. The West Berkshire equivalent of Lillee and Thomson were known to be fond of their refreshment and the theory was that stuffed full of cake and ale they'd be about half pace afterwards - having got through the pre tea session and a few overs after I was able to confirm to our skipper that although he knew **** all about the game of cricket he had had that one spot on - they were about half speed after the break
    Daemon, wiff, Samuel_Vimes and 1 others like this.

  7. #37
    Virat Kohli (c) Jono's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by zaremba View Post
    We're talking about it in this thread and I'm not aware of it having failed recently (other than the fact that it's always a fail, even when it works, if you see what I mean).
    True, Anderson survived in the most recent case so it didn't "fail" in that sense but it didn't prove to be a great move because Bell didn't score any runs the next day. So it didn't do anything or wasn't proved to be a success. Had Bell scored runs I doubt people would have credited Anderson going in as a good move though.

    In any case, important to note a nightwatchman going out before the end of play doesn't mean it is a failure, unless a batsman comes in and then goes out afterwards. So long as the batsman on the other end and the batsman due to come in are not out from when the nightwatchman comes in, it works.

    I think whether a nightwatchman is a sensible idea depends on the specific batsman due to come in, the time left in the day, the match situation, the ability and batting style of your tailenders etc.

    I can see why people don't like it - its a bit of a contradiction in that you send your openers out there and risk their wickets with a few overs left but aren't willing to risk your number 3 or 4. It also goes against the whole "man up and take it to your opposition, don't hide etc" mantra people like to go on about. However personally for one I think there are times when it is the right move, so long as you have a tailender who has the game for it (Gillespie was perfect, and Morkel from 3-4 years ago also had the game for it).

    The other aspect I love is it is a concept so unique to cricket, and has been used for so long. Its just one of the intricacies of the game we love.

  8. #38
    Cricketer Of The Year zaremba's Avatar
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    I suppose the ultimate example of this might be the old case where England (I think it was) played their batting order in reverse to soak up the tricky conditions. Fred to confirm details?

  9. #39
    Request Your Custom Title Now! benchmark00's Avatar
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    Jono's correct.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jono View Post
    Kohli. Do something in test cricket for once please.

    Thanks.

  10. #40
    Cricket Web Staff Member fredfertang's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by zaremba View Post
    I suppose the ultimate example of this might be the old case where England (I think it was) played their batting order in reverse to soak up the tricky conditions. Fred to confirm details?
    Do you mean this game?

  11. #41
    Hall of Fame Member Marcuss's Avatar
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    Something unmentioned in the 'nightwatchmen average more at 10/11 than in the top order' is that they're inevitably going to have a greater proportion of not outs when batting in the lower order. I hate the argument that not outs 'inflate' a player's average - that's a fallacious statement - but there's an obvious difference between filling in at 4 where there are multiple opportunities for you to get out and batting at 11 where it's either you or your partner that gets out and on many occasions your partner's risking his wicket to score as many runs as he can before you get out yourself.

    I like the idea of a nightwatchman and as Jono said in many circumstances it can work. Steyn did it not long ago against India and got a good 40 odd putting on almost 100 with Kallis the next day. Someone like Jimmy Anderson isn't really capable of that in my eyes and I much preferred it when we chose Bresnan to do it at Lord's earlier in the summer... even if he did basically stonewall.

  12. #42
    State 12th Man wiff's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by fredfertang View Post
    Do you mean this game?
    Well found. How weird is that? Both teams in on the act of moving the deck chairs around.

  13. #43
    Cricket Web Staff Member fredfertang's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wiff View Post
    Well found. How weird is that? Both teams in on the act of moving the deck chairs around.
    If you're interested the story of the match is in this feature

  14. #44
    State 12th Man wiff's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by fredfertang View Post
    If you're interested the story of the match is in this feature
    Link is not working?

  15. #45
    Cricket Web Staff Member fredfertang's Avatar
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    http://www.cricketweb.net/forum/www....atures/163.php

    I really am not getting on very well with this new computer!

    No idea why that won't work either - go to Features on the home page, October 2009 and it's called "From Kensington Oval to Perdition"
    Last edited by fredfertang; 06-01-2014 at 03:11 PM.

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