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Thread: England's Problems (Potential answers?)

  1. #1
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    England's Problems (Potential answers?)

    Seems to me we have a lot of problems right now.

    I would say that the majority of that is down to inconsistency in selections.

    1) Batsmen. Nick Compton was dropped for seemingly being too inconsistent at the top of the order, he was also going slow - but it now seems like that may not have been Compton's fault and just the fact (as I said at the time) that Cook has drained all positiveness out of these batsmen and they all seem scared to give their wickets away. Replaced by Joe Root, who, asides from scoring one hundred (Compton scored two), didn't seem to do a lot right either, who was in turn replaced by Carberry at the top of the order. Root dropped down to six, so perhaps England felt that he wasn't good enough against the new ball (otherwise why would you drop him from opening in the first place?).

    So after one test match when Trott goes home, Root is instantly promoted back to number three, where he could (and has) faced a ball before the opener at the other end has faced a ball - does that make sense considering he was dropped from this spot just one match before? In the first test Root scored 2 and 26*. Is that enough to get you your place back at the top of the order? Seems so according to England.

    2) Bowlers. In a seemingly similar situtation Steven Finn was dropped after the first test match at Trent Bridge in the summer, Cook refused to turn to Finn on that final morning when it looked like we were going to lose the game. Since then Finn didn't do anything of note for Middlesex yet instantly regained his position in the squad ahead of other quick bowlers (Onions) - and also when we had two "tall" bowlers in the squad.

    Tremlett - purely picked on a hunch and the fact he was decent down under last time. 32 wickets at an average of 33 for Surrey in Championship Cricket yet he was picked ahead of Onions, Jordan, Rushworth, Anyon, Sidebottom etc. etc.. (all whom took more wickets than him in Championship Cricket).

    3) Wicketkeeper. When the squad was selected in was said that "there is no back up keeper" "oh it doesn't matter unless Prior breaks a finger we won't need one". I think it was ahead of the first test (might have been the second) when Prior had a leg injury (?) and was a doubt for the test. At that point we should have called up whoever was a proper wicketkeeper batsmen. Whether that was Davies, Buttler, Kieswetter, Read, Foster etc. etc.. just a proper wicketkeeper.

    Again Bairstow - dropped in the summer for not scoring enough runs he regained his place in the side by doing NOTHING.


    Does this show that England is a closed shop? Finn, Bairstow and Tremlett for me do not deserve to be in Australia let alone around the team. Root can bat at six but he did nothing to get up to number three?

    I think the consistent issue is the leadership, the selection policy obviously isn't based on form and just based on whose face fits Flower & Cooks world.

    My first selection would be to remove Cook as captain, I don't care about people saying "who replaces him". Cook is not a good leader. Oh he won in India, I would say that was down to very poor Indian batting against Monty & Swann with good support from Jimmy and the other quicks. Very few of the wickets were down to good captaincy, more bowled and LBWS that planning. We won the Ashes at home but had wickets that suited us but the reality is we have been going downhill in Test Cricket since the New Zealand away series, we have gone back to the olden days in ODI Cricket with Cook, Bell & Trott the top 3 in ODI Cricket nudging it around at snails pace.

    In the space of two years we have gone from this agressive, winning side who take no sh*t to a defensive, negative, frail team, batting at a snail pace which means the opposition is ALWAYS in the game, we never get away from them and put them under pressure.

    Who is the best captain in County Cricket? Collingwood won the Championship didn't he but he has been and gone. Who are the other English captains? Gale, Read, Troughton, Trescothick, Foster, Adams, Tredwell, Chappel, Peters, Mitchell?

    Do we do what South Africa did with Smith and say to a young lad - there's the captaincy, we trust in you and will support you for the next five years?

    I haven't got all the answers but the inconsistencies wind me up, this team is going nowhere except backwards and the players we are picking, selecting - doesn't make sense. For me something has to change and the leadership of the team has to be that.
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    State Regular karan316's Avatar
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    Nick Compton might be slow, but he was England's best option as an opener after Strauss retired. Even Rogers is slow at times, but he has managed to see off the new ball and make it a lot more easier for the middle order even when not scoring much runs. Compton showed a lot of maturity as an opener and should have got a longer run IMO.
    Last edited by karan316; 30-12-2013 at 02:21 AM.
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    Cricket Web Staff Member fredfertang's Avatar
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    Onions omission was the worst mistake - he was the one selection that imo might have made a difference - apart from that the crux of the problem has been that Australia have played bloody well
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    International Coach Pothas's Avatar
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    How many England threads do we have now? I can't remember which one is which.

    On Compton, obviously it is impossible to know but I would guess that he would have produced similar reuslts to Carberry. Both are more than capable of scoring hundreds against Sri Lanka and probably India this coming summer but neither is a long term option.


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    Quote Originally Posted by fredfertang View Post
    apart from that the crux of the problem has been that Australia have played bloody well
    Yeah this.

    Good OP Jack and there is a lot of truth in there, but I really don't think the answer is to get rid of Cook. Under Flower we have been so consistent with our plans and selections that is hard to comprehend some of these recent glaring selection **** ups......but we can't pin this all on Cook.

    I accept that Cooks captaincy has been very ordinary and I don't like the brand of cricket we've been playing, but again how much of this is down to skip and how much is pieced together by the brains trust off the field? It's hard to make sense of it, you can't lay all the blame on Cook for our negative approach when he scored 50 at a good click in the 2nd innings to get us into a strong position and Carbs was at the other end stuck in cement........obviously the game plan was to be positive and when Cook went the wheels just fell off.

    Cook will learn on the job and so long as he has the respect and support of the team then he's the right man for us......and lets be frank, who else is there?

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    The thing I liked about Compo is that despite not setting the world on fire he and Cook were getting us off to great starts, sure Cook made the majority of the runs but (and I forget how many off the top of my head) they put on a good few 100 opening stands in Comptons brief time...........have we even had 100 opening partnership since he was dropped?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Adders View Post
    ......and lets be frank, who else is there?
    I'm trying to think of a similar situation really. Something you need but you can't cope with the existing one. Was going to use the Mrs but we don't need a mrs all the time

    You are right. It's not like Football where you sack the manager then look for a replacement, we need one in line.

    Who was been captaining the Lions recently? Does it have to come from within the team? Wouldn't it be good to have a freshen up and a new leader? Cook could and would stay in the team.

    I'm looking at Cook's tactical knowhow. Last test for example. Bowling Root before Monty. Bowling Stokes for one over before the new ball. The field placings when we were bowling at Haddin & Lyon etc.. You can go through the tests and there have been questionable decisions almost every innings. Sending in a nightwatchman for Bresnan when Bresnan was the night watchman the test match before.. (this was in the summer I think). The ODI matches - reduced to 20/20 yet we still had Cook, Bell & Trott as the top three despite Bopara & Morgan in the middle order.

    I don't want to pin everything on Cook but the simple things like above I can't see them coming from anywhere else but Cook?

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    Unless we have a MIke Brierley kicking around bringing in a specialist captain is not an option. Therefore the first thing you need to look at is who is a lock in for their place in the team, in other threads most seemed to agree we have 5..........

    Cook
    Bell
    KP
    Broad
    Jimmy

    Apart from Cook who out of that lot would you be giving the job to??

    I do believe that Cook can learn the tactical side of it, clearly he's not a natural with it like Clarke is but in all honesty I don't think many are.

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    Cricketer Of The Year wpdavid's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Adders View Post
    Unless we have a MIke Brierley kicking around bringing in a specialist captain is not an option. Therefore the first thing you need to look at is who is a lock in for their place in the team, in other threads most seemed to agree we have 5..........

    Cook
    Bell
    KP
    Broad
    Jimmy

    Apart from Cook who out of that lot would you be giving the job to??

    I do believe that Cook can learn the tactical side of it, clearly he's not a natural with it like Clarke is but in all honesty I don't think many are.

    Certainly not Broad or Anderson, albeit for slightly differing reasons.

    Bell, if we're honest, we have no idea whatsoever about. The mode of many of his dismissals doesn't inspire confidence that he could lead anyone, but we really haven't a clue about his tactical acumen or leadership qualities.

    I'd happily give the job to KP, but I know you differ. Can't recall if you provided any reasons though.

    Cook should improve if he's given some intelligent support in the role. Maybe Bell as official vice-captain to provide a sounding board out in the middle.


    Swann might have been an interesting captain, but obviously that option's gone.

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    Cricket Web Staff Member / Global Moderator Neil Pickup's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Adders View Post
    Unless we have a MIke Brierley kicking around bringing in a specialist captain is not an option. Therefore the first thing you need to look at is who is a lock in for their place in the team, in other threads most seemed to agree we have 5..........

    Cook
    Bell
    KP
    Broad
    Jimmy

    Apart from Cook who out of that lot would you be giving the job to??

    I do believe that Cook can learn the tactical side of it, clearly he's not a natural with it like Clarke is but in all honesty I don't think many are.
    This is the crux of the matter. Bell is the only option and he is an entirely unknown quantity.

    Re the OP - not entirely sure how you can use the names Buttler and Kieswetter in the same sentence as the phrase "proper wicketkeeper".
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    Eternal Optimist / Cricket Web Staff Member GIMH's Avatar
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    Broad next in line out of those you'd have thought, purely because he's T20 captain?

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    Cricketer Of The Year wpdavid's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GIMH View Post
    Broad next in line out of those you'd have thought, purely because he's T20 captain?
    I just hope not. Captaining a test team is a whole different ball game anyway. not least in terms of bowling and field placements, which are relatively formulaic in limited overs games. Beyond that, I shudder to think how it would affect him.

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    International Vice-Captain Riggins's Avatar
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    Don't think Broad's copped enough for taking the paper into the press conference. Mother cricket really ****ed y'all over after that.
    The sort of general malaise that only the genius possess and the insane lament.

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    Cricketer Of The Year wpdavid's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Riggins View Post
    Don't think Broad's copped enough for taking the paper into the press conference. Mother cricket really ****ed y'all over after that.
    Yeah, I mentioned it elsewhere. Really dumb, and indicative of an attitude that just stinks sometimes.

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    So many general England team discussions threads, getting confused.
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