I would pick a new 3rd seamer for the Sri Lanka series (well I'd pick Rankin for the next test and see how he goes from there). It really is a crucial position for us, if we can find a good one then all of a sudden we can maintain pressure throughout an innings again. Batting I generally agree with, Root at 3 as long as he stops getting so bogged down. Prior needs runs, but Buttler is at least a year away (probably two) from being ready so he is likely to be the guy in 2015 as well.
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England post ashes 13/14
- Thread starter flibbertyjibber
- Start date
The facts are: they weren't number 1 for any substantial period of time. The teams they rolled to get there were both coming down from mass player departures of generational quality. They never beat South Africa. Their "great" bowler in Anderson averages over 30. The central basis for their success has been Ashes results; their opposition in these clashes has fallen sharply on and off the field. Were they even competitive in a world cup?
Let's be real. The "golden era" is all about the three ashes wins in a row. That stat seduces given the recent strength of the Australian cricket team, but we're talking about a side that has fallen to 5th in the world. We may as well be talking about rolling the West Indies. Literally. These are the proportions we're talking about. It's great for the romance, but it is just romance.
End of the day, I think Flower has succeeded in building method and professionalism into the system, but it remains a nation that doesn't produce a lot of good cricketers and so will struggle more than it doesn't. I think the presence of Kevin Pietersen has muddied that perception. Several of the country's former players proclaiming him the best England player they've seen lends a lot of credence to that.
They'll move Flower on, they'll move a few players on, and they'll get a bit worse. They'll "do" something, but I don't think there's a hell of a lot they can do to significant effect. It's where the game sits in the country.
Let's be real. The "golden era" is all about the three ashes wins in a row. That stat seduces given the recent strength of the Australian cricket team, but we're talking about a side that has fallen to 5th in the world. We may as well be talking about rolling the West Indies. Literally. These are the proportions we're talking about. It's great for the romance, but it is just romance.
End of the day, I think Flower has succeeded in building method and professionalism into the system, but it remains a nation that doesn't produce a lot of good cricketers and so will struggle more than it doesn't. I think the presence of Kevin Pietersen has muddied that perception. Several of the country's former players proclaiming him the best England player they've seen lends a lot of credence to that.
They'll move Flower on, they'll move a few players on, and they'll get a bit worse. They'll "do" something, but I don't think there's a hell of a lot they can do to significant effect. It's where the game sits in the country.
Furball
Evil Scotsman
Yeah, let's ignore England's win in India.
Cabinet96
Global Moderator
Bore. England were a much better cricket side two/three years ago. There's no way you can try and portray it for that to not be the case. And what more, we got to the standard with a bunch of players many didn't think could do that, which means we can probably do it again.
hendrix
Hall of Fame Member
Disagree with most of this post. Dismissing Anderson on the basis of his early-career influenced average makes you sound like a person who doesn't watch cricket, to be honest.
I agree that they're just not that good now, but they were a very, very good team 2 years ago. Might've beaten South Africa had they played them at their absolute peak.
Agent Nationaux
International Coach
With Steyn and Philander. I doubt that very much.
Top_Cat
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Anderson's literally the only bowler in England who can bowl a world-class new ball spell right now. And that's what he's done in this series, runs have flowed from the other end and only against him later in an innings. He's in no danger of being dropped.
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hendrix
Hall of Fame Member
On this, could they consider Onions to partner Anderson with the new ball and have Broad as third seamer? I realise Onions is pretty similar to Anderson but if they're both good new ball bowlers I don't see a problem with that. Broad has been the pick of the bowlers so far and has never been overly reliant on the new ball.
2 swing bowlers isn't something they'd seem to go for but it's worked pretty well for NZ over the past couple of years.
flibbertyjibber
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I wouldn't drop him but they need to manage his workload better or he is of no use at all.
Neil Pickup
Cricket Web Moderator
We just look jaded, to be honest. It's like that stage in the final days of the summer term, when children don't want to be in the classroom and your own mind is fried by an onslaught of admin, reports and meetings; you find a way to get by on auto-pilot because (to borrow controversial lexicon) you physically can't shift out of first gear.
This is why you don't get inspected in the final week of term. England, unfortunately, are on the end of the furthest-reaching inspection they could ever have imagined, and consequently they are failing. This is also why you need a summer holiday, and why England need to take a long break before throwing the baby out with the bathwater.
Besides, someone needs to start pulling up some serious trees for the Lions soon to create some genuine pressure on the incumbents.
This is why you don't get inspected in the final week of term. England, unfortunately, are on the end of the furthest-reaching inspection they could ever have imagined, and consequently they are failing. This is also why you need a summer holiday, and why England need to take a long break before throwing the baby out with the bathwater.
Besides, someone needs to start pulling up some serious trees for the Lions soon to create some genuine pressure on the incumbents.
"both coming down from mass player departures of generational quality"
On the basis of his early-career influenced average? See this is what I'm talking about. Anderson is averaging 58 this series, and 12 odd months ago when he was either close to, or the leading wicket taker on the ICC rankings list, he was averaging 30. So what are we talking about as a period where he -isn't- averaging 30? Two years? 2.5 years? 1.5 years? This isn't a long period of high grade bowling.
It is just total crap to say that it's all about his early career. People are deluding themselves.
Cabinet96
Global Moderator
Yeah, I kind of agree with that actually. Anderson's been a great bowler for England for years, but I think there's a touch of delusion about his figures. People just drop a few runs off his bowling average due to his bad start, despite said start representing an increasingly small part of his career. His average hasn't really changed since the 10/11 Ashes, so I think it's fair to say simply waiting for it to drop below 30 is going to be a futile process. He had a period of 2010 and 2011 where he was a mid to low 20's average bowler, that's it.
That's not to say he's an average bowler. To achieve a high 20's bowling average for a long period all over the world is remarkably impressive, especially considering he's also the workhorse who keeps it tight and helps create wickets for other bowlers.
That's not to say he's an average bowler. To achieve a high 20's bowling average for a long period all over the world is remarkably impressive, especially considering he's also the workhorse who keeps it tight and helps create wickets for other bowlers.
Which players other than Dravid? Is V.V.S really that 'generational'? Zaheer played, Sachin played, Gambir played, Sehwag played,
From 2008 to now, he averages 28.77. On form that'll be over 29 by the end of this series. Hardly the stuff of legend. Bell was comparing him to McGrath a little while ago, I mean...
This is a bloody good bowler, but he's kind of also the poster child for this inflated sentiment surrounding the side right now.
This is a bloody good bowler, but he's kind of also the poster child for this inflated sentiment surrounding the side right now.
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centurymaker
Cricketer Of The Year
Those guys had become **** by the time England toured India. Plus take out Monty, and England may well have lost the series 3-0 instead of winning it 2-1. Wasn't a very collectively awesome performance.
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