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Thread: England post ashes 13/14

  1. #16
    Cricket Web Staff Member Burgey's Avatar
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    Anderson needs managing now he's getting on a bit. I'd be tapping him on the shoulder wrt one dayers and have him as a test match only bowler. It's not like there aren't a lot of seam bowlers who are better batsmen than him who can play in Odis.

  2. #17
    Cricketer Of The Year Agent Nationaux's Avatar
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    Looking ahead, England are playing Lanka and India at home, Windies away and NZ at home before the Ashes. They should use this time and these games with weaker opponents to regroup, become fit and mentally focus themselves, so that they can take on the Aussies. Cook should stay as Captain for stability (please don't do what Pak does to its players).
    Last edited by Agent Nationaux; 16-12-2013 at 01:57 PM.
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    Yeah, look, it gives me a pain deep inside my uterus to admit it, but it's Ajmal until such time as we get a working throwing law again.
    Never in a million years would I have thought Brumby to admit this!!!!!!

  3. #18
    International Coach flibbertyjibber's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Agent Nationaux View Post
    Looking ahead, England are playing Lanka and India at home, Windies away and NZ at home before the Ashes. They should use this time and these games with weaker opponents to regroup, become fit and mentally focus themselves, so that they can take on the Aussies. Cook should stay as Captain for stability (please don't do what Pak does to its players).
    I agree, can see nothing being done (like India used to do) winning at home or against the lesser sides and then coming up short in the big series against Australia though.

  4. #19
    Cricketer Of The Year Agent Nationaux's Avatar
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    India still does this.


  5. #20
    Cricket Web: All-Time Legend Furball's Avatar
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    We've got 18 months until Australia arrive back on these shores. Our Test calendar until then is:

    Sri Lanka (h) - 2 Tests
    India (h) - 5 Tests
    West Indies (a) - 3 Tests
    New Zealand (h) - 2 Tests

    That's 2 very friendly opponents for our batsmen next summer, and with the greatest respect to our 2015 opponents, there's tougher gigs in Test cricket.

    It is not the time for knee-jerking and making a whole load of changes for change's sake. Out of the current touring party, Trott is the only player I wouldn't be touching again. As harsh as this sounds, his form for the past 2 years had been utterly crap, and I don't think it's fair on either the player, or the team, to expose him to exactly the same sort of situation that's caused his illness in the first place.

    Cook - no realistic option to replace him as Test captain
    Carberry - doing OK
    Root - long term
    Pietersen - still world class if he could stop the ****ing brain farts
    Bell - single-handedly carried the batting in the summer
    Number 6 is up for grabs
    Prior - more than enough credit in the bank
    Swann - have a look at Murali's figures in Australia. Australia is a ****ing grave yard for spinners (which begs the question, who the **** thought picking 2 spinners at Adelaide was a good idea?), Swann has been ruthlessly targetted by Australia's batsmen who knew that he wouldn't get the assistance he got at home and England's seam bowling hasn't been able to cover for him. The upcoming fixture list isn't ideal for Swann but I'll be amazed if he's not still the best spinner in England in 2 years' time.
    Anderson - possibly the most ridiculous idea I've ever read. His SR of 65+ is definitely a major worry. Probably because he's been carrying England's bowling attack for the last 5 years and it's taken its toll. As soon as the Sydney Test is done, Anderson needs to fly home and have a long rest. I'd be managing his ODI workload as well (which means missing the tours of the West Indies and Sri Lanka, which are ODI only) to have him as fresh as possible for the summer's Tests and the World Cup, at which point he should retire from ODI cricket and concentrate on Tests. Manage his workload, keep him fresh, stop flogging him into the ground and he'll be alright. Quite why you'd consider dropping your number 1 bowler when the 3rd seamer position can't be filled is beyond me.
    Broad - not a captaincy option because he breaks all the time
    3rd seamer - Bres easily if he would stop breaking.
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  6. #21
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    I would pick a new 3rd seamer for the Sri Lanka series (well I'd pick Rankin for the next test and see how he goes from there). It really is a crucial position for us, if we can find a good one then all of a sudden we can maintain pressure throughout an innings again. Batting I generally agree with, Root at 3 as long as he stops getting so bogged down. Prior needs runs, but Buttler is at least a year away (probably two) from being ready so he is likely to be the guy in 2015 as well.

  7. #22
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    The facts are: they weren't number 1 for any substantial period of time. The teams they rolled to get there were both coming down from mass player departures of generational quality. They never beat South Africa. Their "great" bowler in Anderson averages over 30. The central basis for their success has been Ashes results; their opposition in these clashes has fallen sharply on and off the field. Were they even competitive in a world cup?

    Let's be real. The "golden era" is all about the three ashes wins in a row. That stat seduces given the recent strength of the Australian cricket team, but we're talking about a side that has fallen to 5th in the world. We may as well be talking about rolling the West Indies. Literally. These are the proportions we're talking about. It's great for the romance, but it is just romance.

    End of the day, I think Flower has succeeded in building method and professionalism into the system, but it remains a nation that doesn't produce a lot of good cricketers and so will struggle more than it doesn't. I think the presence of Kevin Pietersen has muddied that perception. Several of the country's former players proclaiming him the best England player they've seen lends a lot of credence to that.

    They'll move Flower on, they'll move a few players on, and they'll get a bit worse. They'll "do" something, but I don't think there's a hell of a lot they can do to significant effect. It's where the game sits in the country.

  8. #23
    Cricket Web: All-Time Legend Furball's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 3703 View Post
    The facts are: they weren't number 1 for any substantial period of time. The teams they rolled to get there were both coming down from mass player departures of generational quality. They never beat South Africa. Their "great" bowler in Anderson averages over 30. The central basis for their success has been Ashes results; their opposition in these clashes has fallen sharply on and off the field. Were they even competitive in a world cup?

    Let's be real. The "golden era" is all about the three ashes wins in a row. That stat seduces given the recent strength of the Australian cricket team, but we're talking about a side that has fallen to 5th in the world. We may as well be talking about rolling the West Indies. Literally. These are the proportions we're talking about. It's great for the romance, but it is just romance.

    End of the day, I think Flower has succeeded in building method and professionalism into the system, but it remains a nation that doesn't produce a lot of good cricketers and so will struggle more than it doesn't. I think the presence of Kevin Pietersen has muddied that perception. Several of the country's former players proclaiming him the best England player they've seen lends a lot of credence to that.

    They'll move Flower on, they'll move a few players on, and they'll get a bit worse. They'll "do" something, but I don't think there's a hell of a lot they can do to significant effect. It's where the game sits in the country.
    Yeah, let's ignore England's win in India.

  9. #24
    Cricketer Of The Year Cabinet96's Avatar
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    Bore. England were a much better cricket side two/three years ago. There's no way you can try and portray it for that to not be the case. And what more, we got to the standard with a bunch of players many didn't think could do that, which means we can probably do it again.
    Quote Originally Posted by Flem274* View Post
    This English top three are cornflakes. They're not the most exciting thing out but they're pretty effective. Then the middle order are the sugar. Would be too much on their own but added to the cornflakes they add some much needed interest

    When KP returns he will be the banana..

  10. #25
    International Captain hendrix's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 3703 View Post
    The facts are: they weren't number 1 for any substantial period of time. The teams they rolled to get there were both coming down from mass player departures of generational quality. They never beat South Africa. Their "great" bowler in Anderson averages over 30. The central basis for their success has been Ashes results; their opposition in these clashes has fallen sharply on and off the field. Were they even competitive in a world cup?

    Let's be real. The "golden era" is all about the three ashes wins in a row. That stat seduces given the recent strength of the Australian cricket team, but we're talking about a side that has fallen to 5th in the world. We may as well be talking about rolling the West Indies. Literally. These are the proportions we're talking about. It's great for the romance, but it is just romance.

    End of the day, I think Flower has succeeded in building method and professionalism into the system, but it remains a nation that doesn't produce a lot of good cricketers and so will struggle more than it doesn't. I think the presence of Kevin Pietersen has muddied that perception. Several of the country's former players proclaiming him the best England player they've seen lends a lot of credence to that.

    They'll move Flower on, they'll move a few players on, and they'll get a bit worse. They'll "do" something, but I don't think there's a hell of a lot they can do to significant effect. It's where the game sits in the country.
    Disagree with most of this post. Dismissing Anderson on the basis of his early-career influenced average makes you sound like a person who doesn't watch cricket, to be honest.

    I agree that they're just not that good now, but they were a very, very good team 2 years ago. Might've beaten South Africa had they played them at their absolute peak.
    Cabinet96 and marc71178 like this.

  11. #26
    Cricketer Of The Year Agent Nationaux's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hendrix View Post
    Disagree with most of this post. Dismissing Anderson on the basis of his early-career influenced average makes you sound like a person who doesn't watch cricket, to be honest.

    I agree that they're just not that good now, but they were a very, very good team 2 years ago. Might've beaten South Africa had they played them at their absolute peak.
    With Steyn and Philander. I doubt that very much.
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  12. #27
    Cricket Web: All-Time Legend Top_Cat's Avatar
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    Anderson's literally the only bowler in England who can bowl a world-class new ball spell right now. And that's what he's done in this series, runs have flowed from the other end and only against him later in an innings. He's in no danger of being dropped.
    Last edited by Top_Cat; 16-12-2013 at 02:48 PM.
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  13. #28
    International Captain hendrix's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Top_Cat View Post
    Anderson's literally the only bowler in England who can bowl a world-class new ball spell right now. And that's what he's done in this series, runs have flowed from the other end and only against him later in an innings. He's in no danger of being dropped.
    On this, could they consider Onions to partner Anderson with the new ball and have Broad as third seamer? I realise Onions is pretty similar to Anderson but if they're both good new ball bowlers I don't see a problem with that. Broad has been the pick of the bowlers so far and has never been overly reliant on the new ball.

    2 swing bowlers isn't something they'd seem to go for but it's worked pretty well for NZ over the past couple of years.

  14. #29
    Cricketer Of The Year Cabinet96's Avatar
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    I wouldn't neccisserily class Onions as a swing bowler. Not any more so than Broad anyway. He's more of a Philander/Bird type seam bowler.

  15. #30
    Cricket Web: All-Time Legend Top_Cat's Avatar
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    Dunno if it would matter much when you consider the batting combination isn't producing.

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