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*Official* Fifth Test at The Oval

91Jmay

International Coach
The misuse of Carberry annoys me. Although Trott isn't a bad player there is no way our ODI team shouldn't have Carberry opening and Bell at 3. That would be an ideal of power, an innings builder and a guy who maneuvers the ball. KP at 4 obviously. In some ways we are stuck in the old English problem of the captain not being a great ODI batter. Kieswetter/Carberry would be a good opening partnership.
 

Johann

School Boy/Girl Captain
The other day I was talking with someone who knows Carberry very well (has acted as his Agent in the past).

He reckons Carb feels he won't get in the Test team now (I felt he would be a good person to go in) and is now working more on his 50 over and swish and giggle game hoping to find a spot there.

This person suggested he was given mixed messages from the management just before his Test selection, and a bit afterwards.
Think this is absolutely spot on - I'm surprised to see so many people calling for him to get a test recall based entirely on a very good YB40 and T20 Summer. 600-odd runs in Division 2 is not the kind of first class form that demands a test recall
 

Johann

School Boy/Girl Captain
The misuse of Carberry annoys me. Although Trott isn't a bad player there is no way our ODI team shouldn't have Carberry opening and Bell at 3. That would be an ideal of power, an innings builder and a guy who maneuvers the ball. KP at 4 obviously. In some ways we are stuck in the old English problem of the captain not being a great ODI batter. Kieswetter/Carberry would be a good opening partnership.
Not Kieswetter again
 

marc71178

Eyes not spreadsheets
There's plenty of reason to not do that - the old Carberry being unproven whilst Trott and Bell are proven performers being one.

Replacing Trott with Carberry you're expecting Carberry to average 50 then.

As for Kieswetter opening, that's even more of a stupid suggestion.
 

91Jmay

International Coach
He has 180 runs in 3 innings in YB40 and he has been the best T20 bat in the competition this year. He is not perfect, still quite block or slog, but he is improved and deserves another go. Idea that if a guy fails at international cricket he is useless is so dumb. If he goes away and scores bags of runs then he deserves another shot.

No I am expecting Carberry to get our innings moving in a way that doesn't put undue pressure on our middle/lower order which triggers collapse.
 

Biryani Pillow

U19 Vice-Captain
He has 180 runs in 3 innings in YB40 and he has been the best T20 bat in the competition this year. He is not perfect, still quite block or slog, but he is improved and deserves another go. Idea that if a guy fails at international cricket he is useless is so dumb. If he goes away and scores bags of runs then he deserves another shot.

No I am expecting Carberry to get our innings moving in a way that doesn't put undue pressure on our middle/lower order which triggers collapse.
There was very little 'slog' in that ton last week. A lot of proper cricket shots.
 

Howe_zat

Audio File
If England saw Bairstow as a long-term keeper they'd rather have him keeping wicket regularly for Yorkshire than be in the side as a top six bat.

Buttler is the man they've got an eye on. He's moving to a different county to keep more because that's the plan for him.
 

grecian

Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
There's plenty of reason to not do that - the old Carberry being unproven whilst Trott and Bell are proven performers being one.

Replacing Trott with Carberry you're expecting Carberry to average 50 then.

As for Kieswetter opening, that's even more of a stupid suggestion.
#trottsfault, he averages that and at a better s-rate than Bell, put's pressure on Ian clearly.

I still can't believe we're having the same discussions. You don't drop a guy who averages fifty, and this ****ing pressure he keeps on causing would be a damn sight worse if we were 30-3, which with Carbs, CK and Bell is quite likely.

If Carberry is concentrating on ODIs then it will be a long wait. Cook, Bell, Kp have all good recent records in the position. Hales would probably be next in line too.
 

Pothas

Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
I still think if Carberry can replicate his county list A form in ODIs (and it is a big if) then he would really add something to the opening slot but it should definetly not be at the expense of Trott. Personally I would give Cook a rest for at least part of the ODI series against Australia and maybe KP as well given there are clearly still some fitness concerns with him. That would allow them to give Carberry a chance.

Captaining back to back ashes is going to take a lot out of you and I don't think that he needs to play all those ODIs. Broad can captain, needs as much experience as he can get before the twenty20 world cup, may not be the same format but it will all help.

As for the test side, I would like him to go to Australia, his four day form has definetly improved of late but would like to see that continue towards the end of the season. Do not see anything like as much of Hampshire live as I used to so it is difficult to judge but he is definetly a different batsman in the longer forms, do not expect him to be smashing it to all parts if he plays tests.
 

91Jmay

International Coach
Alex Hales should be behind Kieswetter/Carberry/Vince at least. Knowing how badly our selectors have there favorites he will probably be in the side before them though. I love how without blockers at the top of the order the score is 30-3 though, because thats the case for every other country who play more positively isn't it. Wait...
 

grecian

Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
Alex Hales should be behind Kieswetter/Carberry/Vince at least. Knowing how badly our selectors have there favorites he will probably be in the side before them though. I love how without blockers at the top of the order the score is 30-3 though, because thats the case for every other country who play more positively isn't it. Wait...
Was the case for England, when we had the likes of CK opening and Bell at 3. In the end we can't carry on comparing ourselves to India, they have one of the all-time great ODI batting line-ups, they all score naturally quickly and average highly. We just don't have the players to do that.
 

Cabinet96

Global Moderator
I love how without blockers at the top of the order the score is 30-3 though, because thats the case for every other country who play more positively isn't it. Wait...
Makes me wonder why we've done so much better than most of those sides recently...

There are many myths about England, their ODI cricket and how other sides are different. There are loads of players whose strike rates are similar to the England top three's, but don't get as much stick because they're boundary hitters and appear to be scoring quicker, when really they're not. Guys like Trott are accumulators who often score quicker than people realise, because they get a lot of their runs through singles, twos and threes. They can't always help the side get 350, but they pretty much never let the side get less than 200. There are loads of other inferior players who never get as much stick because once in a blue moon they play a blinder, but half the time they just show a complete ineptitude at rotating the strike and get bogged down against anyone decent or in any challenging conditions. This is best seen in the Pakistan and West Indies sides. Even take Sri Lanka. Sure, they chased down loads against us in the CT, but they also got skittled by NZ and couldn't get it off the square against India.

Seriously I can't believe this is still a topic of debate. The only one who should be pushing for Bell's place is KP, and no one should be pushing for Trott's place. England are currently the second best ODI side in the world FFS. And no, getting Carberry or Kieswetter in the setup isn't going to turn our batting into India's.
 
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Cabinet96

Global Moderator
Scyld has been increasingly odd over the last few years, He's very much our answer to Malcolm Conn. Idiot obviously.
I remember before the NZ tour when he claimed Bell should be dropped so that they could fit both Root and Bairstow in. Was weird to say the least.
 

Cabinet96

Global Moderator
Was the case for England, when we had the likes of CK opening and Bell at 3. In the end we can't carry on comparing ourselves to India, they have one of the all-time great ODI batting line-ups, they all score naturally quickly and average highly. We just don't have the players to do that.
Tbf, I don't think CK did a particularly bad job in his second stint as opener. Averaged around 30 at just over a run a ball, and for the most part was a decent foil to Cook and Trott either side of himself. Besides, we were never 30-3 with him, because Cook and Trott were still there. Think he was a slight #escapegoat of the 5-0 loss in India at the end of 2011 and also tarnished a tad in an attempt to re-galvanise KP's diminishing ODI career.

That being said, they certainly can't go back to him now. They already have the impossible task of trying to fit Cook, Bell, Trott, KP and Root into the top four.
 

grecian

Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
Tbf, I don't think CK did a particularly bad job in his second stint as opener. Averaged around 30 at just over a run a ball, and for the most part was a decent foil to Cook and Trott either side of himself. Besides, we were never 30-3 with him, because Cook and Trott were still there. Think he was a slight #escapegoat of the 5-0 loss in India at the end of 2011 and also tarnished a tad in an attempt to re-galvanise KP's diminishing ODI career.

That being said, they certainly can't go back to him now. They already have the impossible task of trying to fit Cook, Bell, Trott, KP and Root into the top four.
Stop talking up CK, he's the reason Jos is leaving, he's on my bad list.

30 isn't really brilliant is it? just more, Mustard, Solanki, Prior (played 42 matches in the top 3), Davies type stuff that meant we always seemed to struggle at the top.
 

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