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Thread: *Official* Fourth Test at Chester-le-Street

  1. #4351
    International Captain Maximas's Avatar
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    it should also be noted that even when the bowling is good, a batsman is not completely at the mercy of the bowler, if he restrains himself or imposes himself well enough on the bowling he can avoid some of the problems someone like Cook is facing. It's a combination of excellent bowling to plans and to a lesser extent perhaps somewhat poor batting at times which is creating the situation IMO.
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  2. #4352
    Hall of Fame Member Son Of Coco's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maximas View Post
    it should also be noted that even when the bowling is good, a batsman is not completely at the mercy of the bowler, if he restrains himself or imposes himself well enough on the bowling he can avoid some of the problems someone like Cook is facing. It's a combination of excellent bowling to plans and to a lesser extent perhaps somewhat poor batting at times which is creating the situation IMO.
    Cook has a fairly limited repertoire of shots, if you don't feed his strengths - i.e stay away from his legs and keep it in the corridor just outside off, then he will bog himself down for a while/get out. Someone mentioned Bell earlier, and how if the bowlers are bowling so well why has he scored so many runs. It's pretty simple really, as Benchmark said, he scores all around the ground. Much harder to tie a bloke down and put pressure on him when he has so many scoring options.
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  3. #4353
    Hall of Fame Member Son Of Coco's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Adders View Post
    Amen to that brother!!

    Now speaking for myself here and not for others that are voicing similar opinions.......It seems to me the difference of opinion is clear. I say the England batting unit has underperformed others are saying this is not so and that they are playing to a level that the bowlers and their plans are allowing.......am I right so far??

    Well that sounds like a reasonable basis for a decent debate.......so why the **** isn't that happening?? Clearly two camps at logger heads on this yet I only see one side tossing out terms like "warmongering" "gash" "Should be on Pak Passion" "dimwits"......and funnily enough it's those that seek to climb up on their pedestals looking down on the rest of us that are taking this approach.

    I highlighted the "batting Unit" above as I've heard all the details on how well plans have been executed to Alastair Cook a dozen times......If I bow before you would one of you superior beings with +15k posts and infinite cricketing knowledge please be so kind as to bestow some of that vast wisdom on me.........and explain the plans for Jonathan Trott, Kevin Pieterson and Matthew Prior?? I know I'm a dumbass but I think I'd be right in saying Cook doesn't = a batting unit, yet we have 4 of our top 7 struggling (not in the runs/out of form/bamboozled by the reincarnation of Malcolm Marshall......whatever you want to call it)
    The plans to Trott should be reasonably clear from what Clarke's done with the field. They've regularly put men on the leg-side when he's come in and bowled a few short ones to him haven't they? Prior doesn't like the ball coming back in to him, so targeting the stumps early is a good idea, and I think the Aussies have also done this. I haven't watched a lot of Pieterson batting, so I'm not sure what the plans are to him, but from what I've seen they seem to be trying to keep it in the corridor early. Has Watto also been on to him early due to the fact he keeps it pretty tight? Pietersen is another batsman that is harder to pin down because he has so many shots and plays many of them very well.

    They've also given Root little width.

    I'd say the reason why there's not any decent debate is one side doesn't understand what the Australian bowlers have been trying to do, and thus assume they have no plans and it's all down to the English batsmen being 'out of form', and the other side can't understand how you can't see what the plans actually are.

    There's really no debate to be had. If you don't understand the plans behind some of the dismissals and how these contribute to the batsman's downfall then that's that.

    The main difference between this Ashes and the last is that Australia hasn't bowled a pile of **** on regular occasions. Their bowling has been very disciplined.
    Last edited by Son Of Coco; 20-08-2013 at 02:41 AM.

  4. #4354
    International Coach flibbertyjibber's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maximas View Post
    it should also be noted that even when the bowling is good, a batsman is not completely at the mercy of the bowler, if he restrains himself or imposes himself well enough on the bowling he can avoid some of the problems someone like Cook is facing. It's a combination of excellent bowling to plans and to a lesser extent perhaps somewhat poor batting at times which is creating the situation IMO.
    Lets face it it isn't like Cook hasn't had dodgy form in an English summer before, probably had more stodgy summers than good ones in his career. The worry for Australia is that the last 2 awful summers he has had he has been a monster that following winter in Australia and India. Not saying it will happen again but it wouldn't be a surprise.


  5. #4355
    Hall of Fame Member Son Of Coco's Avatar
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    If Australia keep bowling as they are then I'd be happy to bet it won't happen.

  6. #4356
    International Coach flibbertyjibber's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Son Of Coco View Post
    If Australia keep bowling as they are then I'd be happy to bet it won't happen.
    Not disagreeing, better than spouting all the 3rd gear ****e though.

    Could say the same about Clarke from your point of view, he hasn't got as many runs as many expected but that is because England have bowled well at him. Then again he may be in 3rd gear waiting for the home series.

  7. #4357
    Hall of Fame Member Son Of Coco's Avatar
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    Yeah fair point. England have bowled well at Clarke though, he's received a couple of crackers this series. That's due to England putting it in the right areas, and when you get it in the right spot and it does a bit then away you go.

    I wouldn't be willing to bet Australia's bowling will maintain this form long-term anyway as it's dependent on Harris not getting injured.

  8. #4358
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    Quote Originally Posted by Son Of Coco View Post

    I'd say the reason why there's not any decent debate is one side doesn't understand what the Australian bowlers have been trying to do, and thus assume they have no plans and it's all down to the English batsmen being 'out of form', and the other side can't understand how you can't see what the plans actually are.
    Interesting. So we don't understand?? We're wrong because we don't understand and can't see what has been playing out in front of us these last few weeks?? At least you're polite when you're being condescending

    I'll have to go back and actually count how many times I have paid credit to the discipline of the Aussie bowlers and their plans........pretty sure sure I haven't ever "assumed they have no plans" and this has all been a hit and miss contest.

    What I am trying to say is that there is more than just good plans being executed here. If the ****ing know it alls here can see what the Aussies are doing don't you think Cook and Flower may have a fair idea too??? Seeing the plan and having the form and confidence to deal with it are two very different things.

    Looks like the only way this argument will be settled is after the return series in Oz. If Cook, Trott, KP and Prior all collectively play below what their careers suggest is their level then I will take my hat off to your bowlers and admit our failures are all down to them. If 1 or more of them turn it around and have bonza series then it looks like acceptance will have to be given to the fact that in this series, a COMBINATION of good bowling and poor batting were the reason England found themselves 30/3 too often to be acceptable.
    Last edited by Adders; 20-08-2013 at 03:22 AM.
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  9. #4359
    International Captain Maximas's Avatar
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    Nah, you don't know **** Adders
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  10. #4360
    Request Your Custom Title Now! benchmark00's Avatar
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    Just ****ing stop it.
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  11. #4361
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    Quote Originally Posted by benchmark00 View Post
    Just ****ing stop it.
    It'll stop tomorrow **** when Cook and Trott put on a 300 partnership and your argument gets shot to ****.

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    Jesus ****ing Christ.

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    Hall of Fame Member grecian's Avatar
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    Look Adders, why do you get so wound up about people thinking your talking rubbish, or not admiring your posts. I'm not saying I'm one of these people.

    Hardly anyone cares about my posts, I get in silly trivial arguments throughout my plodding, interminably long innings on this forum.

    If people don't appreciate my point of view, wind 'em up a bit and move on. Who cares, it's a ****ing cricket forum, it really shouldn't be any indicator of your life or worth. Being liked is really over-rated.

    Sorry that's a bit deep, but I don't understand why you get so wound up.
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  14. #4364
    International Captain Maximas's Avatar
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    It hurts to be told your posting is "gash"

  15. #4365
    Hall of Fame Member grecian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maximas View Post
    It hurts to be told your posting is "gash"
    Does it??? Really?????



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