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Thread: *Official* Fourth Test at Chester-le-Street

  1. #4231
    International Coach flibbertyjibber's Avatar
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    I think the majority of people are just shocked at how many England bats are out of form/found out by the Aussie attack. Trott hasn't been the same player since his injury v India and has also found some mad ways to get out, Cook looks totally out of nick, KP just wants to smash it and Root and Bairstow are kids struggling in their first major series. As for Prior well he has been woeful since his heroics in NZ but has enough in the bank to be let off for now, hopefully it is a temporary thing.

  2. #4232
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    Quote Originally Posted by hendrix View Post
    since when was bad batting and good bowling mutually exclusive?

    It's the "3rd gear" type comments that are irritating. Noone is suggesting that Australia are batting below their level, it's just generally acknowledged that their batsmen aren't that good (yet). Yet plenty of posters are suggesting that England are batting well below their level. That is not giving the opposition credit for bowling well.

    There are 11 players that bat in an innings. Some will under-perform, some will over-perform. Sometimes the team will over-perform, sometimes the team will under-perform. Likewise, there are 5 test matches this series, and 5 next. Sometimes the team will over-perform, sometimes it will under-perform.

    It's fair to say that Prior has underperformed and bell has over-performed.

    The team as a whole? Across the series? no.
    ermm, thats what we are arguing. Strange post that, undermining yourself.
    Most of Englands bats have underperformed, Bell aside who has clearly massively over-performed and Root/Bairstow probably performed to there levels. A classic example is giving Australia loads of credit for Cook's 2nd dig dismissal this test, when Harris even said after the game the delivery that got him was supposed to be the inswinger that slipped wide as the way they plan to get Cook is LBW. He has nicked off a few times, not due to a plan, due to poor shots.

    However Australia have a better bowling attack than England, and have bowled well but I can't see how anyone can have watched this series and seriously tell me Trott hasn't completely got himself out 3 times.
    Last edited by 91Jmay; 13-08-2013 at 04:58 PM.

  3. #4233
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    Jeeez, I'm struggling to believe this debate.....

    KP - Series average 34.50. Career Average 48.29..........14 below.
    Cook - Series average 27.25. Career Average 48.08........20 below.
    Trott - Series average 24.25. Career Average 47.33.........23 below.
    Prior - Series average 14.33. Career Average 42.31.........28 below.

    Now lets look at the Aussie bowling averages series V's career....

    Harris - Series average 19.25. Career Average 22.32........3 below.
    Siddle - Series average 26.29. Career Average 28.58........2 below
    Starc - Series average 27.12. Career Average 32.57.........5 below.
    Lyon - Series average 25.00. Career Average 32.40..........7 below (interesting that one.....best improved??)
    Patto - Series average 43.85. Career Average 26.42.........17 Over
    Twatto - Series average 78.5. Career Average 31.57..........46 Over.
    Bird - Series average 62.5. Career Average 23.30..............39.20 Over

    Don't think it is right to say England were in 3rd gear, but if we can't say that our batsmen underperformed and their form is a concern then something is very wrong with the world. I agree with Cooky monster that we were at 80% and he got flamed for saying so.
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  4. #4234
    Cricket Web: All-Time Legend Top_Cat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 91Jmay View Post
    ermm, thats what we are arguing. Strange post that, undermining yourself.
    Most of Englands bats have underperformed, Bell aside who has clearly massively over-performed and Root/Bairstow probably performed to there levels. A classic example is giving Australia loads of credit for Cook's 2nd dig dismissal this test, when Harris even said after the game the delivery that got him was supposed to be the inswinger that slipped wide as the way they plan to get Cook is LBW. He has nicked off a few times, not due to a plan, due to poor shots.

    However Australia have a better bowling attack than England, and have bowled well but I can't see how anyone can have watched this series and seriously tell me Trott hasn't completely got himself out 3 times.
    Yes but what led to those poor shots? You're missing 95% of the fundamentals of getting wickets against anyone who knows how to wield the stick if you concentrate on the wicket ball itself.

    Winning series' isn't just about making sure you're playing well but preventing the other ****s from playing well too. Want proof? Look at the team the leading wicket takers and run-scorers played for in the '09 Ashes series and then look at who won the series.
    Last edited by Top_Cat; 13-08-2013 at 05:06 PM.
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  5. #4235
    International Coach GotSpin's Avatar
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    Winning and saying your playing in third gear reeks of arrogance. Maybe our attack was more disciplined with precise plans
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  6. #4236
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    Exaclty, but apparently Ian Bell improving his average by about 30% covers those drops in career average.

  7. #4237
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    Quote Originally Posted by Top_Cat View Post
    Yes but what led to those poor shots? You're missing 95% of the fundamentals of getting wickets against anyone who knows how to wield the stick if you concentrate on the wicket ball itself.

    Winning the battles isn't just about making sure you're playing well but preventing the other ****s from playing well too.
    Trotts were completely inexplicable. At Trent Bridge Trott looked totally at ease, was scoring at 60 per 100 balls and then dragged a ball 3 feet outside offstump on.

    Siddle to Trott, OUT, Siddle again! What a day he's having. Crucial moment. Very un-Trott like as he goes for a booming drive to a wide delivery and gets an inside edge which demolishes his stumps. Another poor shot from an England batsman
    At Lords Trott managed to flick a length ball to square leg when he looked again completely untroubled and was striking at 66

    Harris to Trott, OUT, short ball, Trott pulls and gets it all wrong, there's a man at deep square leg and he takes a comfortable catch. Trott suckered in and gets a top edge on a pull stroke and from serene progress, England are back in trouble, Trott has given it away, he just hurried a little, tried to paddle it and put it a long way up in the air
    And this test in the first innings he looked totally comfortable and then got himself out to a straight one from Lyon. I predicted it in the game thread because he had done it twice already in the series.

  8. #4238
    International Captain hendrix's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Adders View Post
    Jeeez, I'm struggling to believe this debate.....

    KP - Series average 34.50. Career Average 48.29..........14 below.
    Cook - Series average 27.25. Career Average 48.08........20 below.
    Trott - Series average 24.25. Career Average 47.33.........23 below.
    Prior - Series average 14.33. Career Average 42.31.........28 below.

    Now lets look at the Aussie bowling averages series V's career....

    Harris - Series average 19.25. Career Average 22.32........3 below.
    Siddle - Series average 26.29. Career Average 28.58........2 below
    Starc - Series average 27.12. Career Average 32.57.........5 below.
    Lyon - Series average 25.00. Career Average 32.40..........7 below (interesting that one.....best improved??)
    Patto - Series average 43.85. Career Average 26.42.........17 Over
    Twatto - Series average 78.5. Career Average 31.57..........46 Over.
    Bird - Series average 62.5. Career Average 23.30..............39.20 Over

    Don't think it is right to say England were in 3rd gear, but if we can't say that our batsmen underperformed and their form is a concern then something is very wrong with the world. I agree with Cooky monster that we were at 80% and he got flamed for saying so.
    Fancy putting up the rest of the batsmen's averages? Bell? The Australians'? How's Clarke going?

    England's bowling averages? How have Stuart Broad and Graeme Swann been going relative to their careers?

    Really, all that you can glean from reading these averages is that the bowling from both sides is a strength relative to their batting. That's been known about both teams for a long time and I don't see why it should mean that either are underperforming with the bat.

    We're up to the 5th test in the series FFS. You don't get to call it underperforming for the whole team over 4 tests. That's just rubbish.
    Last edited by hendrix; 13-08-2013 at 05:22 PM.

  9. #4239
    International Captain Maximas's Avatar
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    The pitches haven't been roads either, and don't forget the pressure of an ashes series as well, both teams underperforming with the bat, england simply the better team.
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  10. #4240
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maximas View Post
    The pitches haven't been roads either, and don't forget the pressure of an ashes series as well, both teams underperforming with the bat, england simply the better team.
    That's exactly what I think. Both teams performing around 80% of there ability.

  11. #4241
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    hehehehe you put a t in front of Watto!

    **** sake.
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  12. #4242
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    Australia are performing at 100% of theirs. Their bowling has been very, very good, and their non-Clarke batsmen are either rubbish or not quite there as Test players.

  13. #4243
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    Quote Originally Posted by GotSpin View Post
    Winning and saying your playing in third gear reeks of arrogance. Maybe our attack was more disciplined with precise plans
    Yeah it's absolute nonsense. England's batsmen could have done much better but that would be dependent on Australia's quicks forgetting how to bowl.

    Most batsmen in history do worse than their career average when they come up against very good bowling.
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  14. #4244
    International Captain Maximas's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GingerFurball View Post
    Australia are performing at 100% of theirs. Their bowling has been very, very good, and their non-Clarke batsmen are either rubbish or not quite there as Test players.
    Our batting is Clarke, yet he has underperformed for the most part, dunno how you can say Australia performing at 100%

  15. #4245
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    If Alastair Cook and Jonathan Trott only ever faced high quality seam bowling in England, with their technical faults and weak areas exposed regularly by disciplined attacks and well set out and executed plans, I wouldn't expect their career averages to be anywhere near as high as they are.

    That's not even the full point though. You can't on the one hand say that England aren't at full percent because a couple of batsman aren't doing as well as they usually do, when the opposition have a batsman who was scoring double centuries for fun against South Africa less than a year ago yet has only made two fifty plus scores this series.
    hendrix likes this.
    Quote Originally Posted by Flem274* View Post
    This English top three are cornflakes. They're not the most exciting thing out but they're pretty effective. Then the middle order are the sugar. Would be too much on their own but added to the cornflakes they add some much needed interest

    When KP returns he will be the banana..



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