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Australia - should they field four quicks?

Would you sub out Nathan Lyon for Trent Bridge?

  • Yes - Lyon for Faulkner

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • Total voters
    27

LongHopCassidy

International Captain
In light of Starceh looking the goods with the Duke, it does merit consideration.

The case for:

1. English conditions obviously favour quick bowlers, and it's likely that at least one will run through a side with a terrific showing. It's a better probability of that with four specialist pacemen instead of three.

2. All available seamers, Bird aside, are significantly better batsmen than Lyon.

3. The last two times we beat the filth we were fielding four quicks (Headingley 2009 and Perth 2010).

The case against:

1. The over-rate. Getting to 90 overs is improbable with no viable part-time spinner, presuming Smitteh and Warner don't make the starting XI and Clarke's back is too fragile to risk bowling him.

2. Would be a waste of a new ball given five quicks will be using it, and none but Twatto are proven at reversing it.

3. Lyon has a much better chance of dismissals with Haddin keeping, and his effectiveness under Wade has skewed his average.

4. Lyon will have massive footmarks to bowl at for Cook and Broad.

5. He just took a seven-for against the best players of spin in the world.


As much as I love Lyon and believe he deserves success, I wouldn't shed (many) tears if Faulkner or Starc played at Trent Bridge. The batting they add would be priceless. That said, there are unanswered questions about our attack's penetration with the older ball (see South Africa in Adelaide, Sri Lanka in Hobart and the whole India series) and Lyon's our best bet to keep pressure on from overs 30-80. Moreover, the over-rate quandary is impossible without him if the Poms aren't dismissed quickly.
 
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hendrix

Hall of Fame Member
It depends on the pitch, but also factor in that England are almost as poor players of spin as Australia.

Bruce Martin and Kane Williamson took plenty of recent wickets against them.
 

LongHopCassidy

International Captain
It depends on the pitch, but also factor in that England are almost as poor players of spin as Australia.

Bruce Martin and Kane Williamson took plenty of recent wickets against them.
Agree to a point. KP wasn't playing, and he's parallel with Clarke for the title of best player of spin in the world.
 

Red

The normal awards that everyone else has
My dislike of Watson is well known but I'm of the opinion that if he can bowl in England, he may well be our best bowler in the conditions.
That said, if Watson is capable of bowling, I'd much prefer we play Lyon.
 

adub

International Captain
My dislike of Watson is well known but I'm of the opinion that if he can bowl in England, he may well be our best bowler in the conditions.
That said, if Watson is capable of bowling, I'd much prefer we play Lyon.
+ 1
 

Flem274*

123/5
England isn't New Zealand or Australia, where finger spinners go to die. There will be favourable conditions for spin during the series and you don't want to put all your eggs in one basket and say "all 5 days ahead will significantly favour pace over spin and every English batsman is significantly worse against pace than spin."

Two things we know won't be true. If you've got a test standard spinner in England, it's always best to keep safe and use them. It's not like Lyon is Jeetan Patel or Xavier Doherty.
 

MrPrez

International Debutant
When you've got Watson in your side, it'd be ludicrous to play a fifth seamer without a spinner.
 

Furball

Evil Scotsman
It depends on the pitch, but also factor in that England are almost as poor players of spin as Australia.

Bruce Martin and Kane Williamson took plenty of recent wickets against them.
Not in England. Average spinners get belted in England.

Having said that, I agree with Flem. England's a lot more spin friendly than people think.
 
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Burgey

Request Your Custom Title Now!
No, because it means we would effectively be playing five seamers, and that's a bit cray cray even for our selectors.
 

Tangles

International Vice-Captain
5 seamers not needed. The Glass all-rounder gives us a useful reverse swing option till he breaks.
 

Spark

Global Moderator
Talking about the same KP that is incapable of playing left arm spin?
Not really relevant here unless you're expecting Clarke to do a lot of bowling...

EDIT: So tempted to vote for the irrelevant fifth option...
 
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hendrix

Hall of Fame Member
Not really relevant here unless you're expecting Clarke to do a lot of bowling...

EDIT: So tempted to vote for the irrelevant fifth option...
It was more in the response to the "second best player of spin" comment.

Even Clarke's not the best player of spin in the world.
 

Cabinet96

Global Moderator
Flem pretty much nailed it. English wickets aren't half as conducive to fast bowling as people think, and they definitely turn more than people seem to imagine they do. Just look at the last two test matches in England, where Williamson was a genuine threat at Lords and Swann got half the wickets at Headingly. Even regardless of that, it's nothing but excessive to play four specialist quicks if Watson is playing and bowling. We had this discussion before the Brisbane test last year, and the CW, and Australia, consensus was that the spinner should play, so if they're playing in Brsibane, you'd definitely expect them to play all the tests in England.
 

flibbertyjibber

Request Your Custom Title Now!
If Watson is fit to bowl then no they need the variation of Lyon. Might work in a match but not over a series. Only reason to pick 4 quicks + Watson is the fact they are really scared that Harris/Watson/Pattinson might break down in the match and if they think that then a spinner should always play as they can take up the slack anyway.

I think Australia will be mad to not play a spinner, look at the Headingley test v NZ. Swann got a huge haul because the pitch turned, the ashes pitches will almost certainly do the same.
 

Adders

Cricketer Of The Year
2. Would be a waste of a new ball given five quicks will be using it, and none but Twatto are proven at reversing it.
**** me, I really did have Watson underrated. When did he start reversing the new ball???

Edit:

You gotta play ya spinner mate......
 
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Tangles

International Vice-Captain
When 4 quicks are picked 1 of them generally gets under bowled anyway. It sounds cool but it doesn't really work as intended.
 

Swingpanzee

International Regular
5 seamers would be crazy even for a team like Australia. Having a spinner is a must, especially when you take into account that English pitches support spin more than the ones in Australia. And none of the seamers have proven thet can effectively reverse the ball.

maximus said:
The oval 2009, it's never happening again, ever...
You never know...
 

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