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Thread: *Official* Warm up Matches Discussion

  1. #1036
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    Yeah Stokes isn't close to being an England Test bowler. There are probably ten guys I'd rather have than him.

  2. #1037
    International Coach grecian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by theegyptian View Post
    Stokes is a massive prospect. He could easily be a lot better than Flintoff(not that Flintoff was that great) but there are a load of similarities also.

    I really feel like he has the potential to bat 6 and also be a third/fourth seamer. His bowling is really improving. I don't think he has outstanding pace but he can bowl hostile spells and more importantly he swings the ball conventionally and reverse. I don't want to or think he should become an out and out bowler because his batting has the potential to be very good also.

    At the moment his batting is average and he has a couple of technical things as well as a confidence issue from not scoring many runs for a couple of years.

    I don't think England should think of playing him as a bowler (say batting 8) because if he gets it right he will be England's most important player for the next 10-15 years batting at 6. Treat him and play him as a bowler and you limit his future potential. I also agree with grecian that at the moment he isn't good enough as a bowler alone - Durham manage his workload and that's correct given he bats in the top 5 - If he didn't bat he'd probably open the bowling . I think probably leave him another year or so and hope his batting does develop a bit more and then select him at 6.

    Going back to the similiarities between Stokes and Flintoff and it is pretty amazing. Both initially batsmen who bowled a bit (albeit Stokes was a much better batsmen initially). Both as their bodies developed became more reliable with the ball than the bat. Both are nervous against spin but can bash them when confident. Stokes thinks a bit more like a batsmen having batted his whole career basically at 4 and 5 and will grind out the runs initially. Both mavericks with a few discipline problems.

    Maybe Stokes will be unfulfilled as a player but he certainly has the talent and I certainly wouldn't rule out him averaging 40 at number 6, and 28 with the ball in test cricket as a 3rd/4th seamer.
    Sorry Egyptian mate, that's just a shocking post from the first paragraph on, Flintoff not that great he bowled at 90 miles per hour, and scored hundreds for England, so honestly Stokes is going to better either of those? To be a lot better, he maybe a lot better than Ronnie Irani, but Flintoff, how the **** can you compare?
    Last edited by grecian; 17-08-2013 at 06:21 PM.
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  3. #1038
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    Quote Originally Posted by grecian View Post
    Sorry Egyptian mate, that's just a shocking post from the first paragraph on, Flintoff not that great he bowled at 90 miles per hour, and scored hundreds for England, so honestly Stokes is going to better either of those?
    I'm pretty high on Stokes but he has the ability to be a lot better than Flintoff.

    He dominated first division attacks as a 19 year batting in a controlled manner. He's basically struggled with form with the bat ever since that serious finger injury but that can easily happen to youngsters especially playing at CLS.

    Flintoff for all that he could reach the occasional high peak was average a lot of the time and didn't have a great output for the effort he put in.

    Stokes like Flintoff is a bit of a maverick and has had a few problems but the kid could be very good.

  4. #1039
    International Coach grecian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by theegyptian View Post
    I'm pretty high on Stokes but he has the ability to be a lot better than Flintoff.

    He dominated first division attacks as a 19 year batting in a controlled manner. He's basically struggled with form with the bat ever since that serious finger injury but that can easily happen to youngsters especially playing at CLS.

    Flintoff for all that he could reach the occasional high peak was average a lot of the time and didn't have a great output for the effort he put in.

    Stokes like Flintoff is a bit of a maverick and has had a few problems but the kid could be very good.
    Well he could be, (so could many) but to dismiss flintoff's achievements in that way is assinine, IMHO. For about four years he was supreme with bat and ball and raised us to a level we hadn't been for decades. ****ing ridiculous to suggest stokes could easily better that. When he's done so little to suggest it.


  5. #1040
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    Quote Originally Posted by grecian View Post
    Well he could be, (so could many) but to dismiss flintoff's achievements in that way is assinine, IMHO. For about four years he was supreme with bat and ball and raised us to a level we hadn't been for decades. ****ing ridiculous to suggest stokes could easily better that. When he's done so little to suggest it.
    yes i mean i've got no idea what's going to happen and what's happening in Stokes head and whether he really wants to be a good player.

    I just really think he has potentially everything. Similiar qualities to Flintoff in someone who is a matchwinner and can massively influence a match in a session. I just feel that if everything went right he could do it better. He bowls a fuller length than flintoff and swings the ball(and fyi he has been over 90mph on sky this season), his body is leaner and less thickset than flintoff so he should be less predisposed to injury. 5 first class hundreds before he was 20 shows a genuine batsman and some of those tons were dominant tons.

    Like Flintoff he won't be the finished article when he comes into the team and he will struggle especially you'd imagine with the bat but I think England realise that he could give vital balance to the team and give him the time when he gets his chance.

  6. #1041
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    Quote Originally Posted by Howe_zat View Post
    This 'can't start against spin' thing is looking more and more like tosh, at least in this country.
    Nah, it's not. Has demolished spinners in ODI's by basically playing one shot in the arc between mid-wicket and mid-on. A spinner in ODI's doesn't have a lot of recourse when a guy is getting out of jail like that and he's ended up skying them on a few occasions anyway. Without fielding restrictions, legside wides, etc. spinners can bowl how and where they want knowing there'll be little need to vary pace, line or length because he never leaves his crease and is rank at knowing what to play at.
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  7. #1042
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    Doesn't look like this game has answered any questions for the oz batting lineup.

  8. #1043
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    sure it has.
    Indians can't bowl - Where has the rumour come from as I myself and many indian friends arwe competent fast bowlers ?

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  9. #1044
    International Debutant dermo's Avatar
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    so fitting that smitteh takes his wickets with rank full tosses

  10. #1045
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    Quote Originally Posted by grecian View Post
    It's been over a very limited period though. He bowls pretty quickly, but honestly I'd rather Mark Wood played as a bowler for England, Stokes has not proved he can consistently operate a workload. Again I think the guys a talent, but honestly if he was a Surrey player and was picked as a bowler on such limited returns you would fume, hasn't even taken a 100(yeah I know a bit cheap, but still) first-class wickets.

    Plenty of bowlers have more pace, Meaker and Dernbach for two.
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    I just love all kinds of balls.

  11. #1046
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    Quote Originally Posted by theegyptian View Post
    yes i mean i've got no idea what's going to happen and what's happening in Stokes head and whether he really wants to be a good player.

    I just really think he has potentially everything. Similiar qualities to Flintoff in someone who is a matchwinner and can massively influence a match in a session. I just feel that if everything went right he could do it better. He bowls a fuller length than flintoff and swings the ball(and fyi he has been over 90mph on sky this season), his body is leaner and less thickset than flintoff so he should be less predisposed to injury. 5 first class hundreds before he was 20 shows a genuine batsman and some of those tons were dominant tons.

    Like Flintoff he won't be the finished article when he comes into the team and he will struggle especially you'd imagine with the bat but I think England realise that he could give vital balance to the team and give him the time when he gets his chance.
    I can understand why you think this for sure but got to side with Grecian. The thing is that Stokes is that ultimately tantalising cricketer, the player that can bat in the top 6 and is a real frontline bowler. Stokes is one of those people that you just really want to be that player, I know I do, but that cricketer is pretty much a myth. It is why for the obvious faults, that Flintoff was actually a very special cricketer, even if only for a short time. I really want Stokes to be good but I don’t think picking him for England when he is obviously not good enough will do anyone any good. Pick him as a number 8 and I just see his batting going backwards.

  12. #1047
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pothas View Post
    I can understand why you think this for sure but got to side with Grecian. The thing is that Stokes is that ultimately tantalising cricketer, the player that can bat in the top 6 and is a real frontline bowler. Stokes is one of those people that you just really want to be that player, I know I do, but that cricketer is pretty much a myth. It is why for the obvious faults, that Flintoff was actually a very special cricketer, even if only for a short time. I really want Stokes to be good but I don’t think picking him for England when he is obviously not good enough will do anyone any good. Pick him as a number 8 and I just see his batting going backwards.
    Did you not reaad my previous post. I said I wouldn't select him. He needs time to work on his batting. It would be a waste to treat him as a number 8.

  13. #1048
    The thing is England have already picked Stokes for limited overs cricket, so I think that really weakens the argument for keeping him out of the Test squad - as does the fact he's had some brilliant performances in limited overs cricket this season with bat and ball. And of course him being picked for ODIs and T20s will mean he's not playing FC cricket for Durham.
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  14. #1049
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scaly piscine View Post
    The thing is England have already picked Stokes for limited overs cricket, so I think that really weakens the argument for keeping him out of the Test squad - as does the fact he's had some brilliant performances in limited overs cricket this season with bat and ball. And of course him being picked for ODIs and T20s will mean he's not playing FC cricket for Durham.
    I fail to see how him being picked for ODI's has any relevance to him being picked for the Test squad. Especially as he has done very little of note in the ODIs.

  15. #1050
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    In Australia that would make him a PONI but it's probably less of an indicator in England.



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