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Thread: Australia's leadership heading toward two big Ashes series

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    International Vice-Captain Monk's Avatar
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    Australia's leadership heading toward two big Ashes series

    Just read this article. Pretty damning on Australia's leadership within the group heading towards the Ashes..

    Champions Trophy 2013 : Michael Clarke concedes captaincy damage | Cricket News | ICC Champions Trophy | ESPN Cricinfo

    Clarke isn't everyone's cup of tea, and it seems that after their "indiscretions" Warner and Watson wont captain Australia anytime soon.So it's little wonder Haddin was brought in to the set up, because it seems like if Clarke's back is shagged, he's the only one who's going to lead.

    But (and this is a distinct possibility) what if Clarke misses tests, and Haddin loses form with the bat and gloves (he is getting to the age where WKs start to drop catches)? Who captains Australia?

    Wonder what odds you could get on Ed Cowan captaining Australia at some point in the next 12 months?

    And as a side note....seems like Watson pushed for Warner to be punished when it was going to be swept under the rug. There's something not right in this squad at the moment.

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    International Coach uvelocity's Avatar
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    bring back ab
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    Request Your Custom Title Now! Spikey's Avatar
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    Steve Smith
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    Indians can't bowl - Where has the rumour come from as I myself and many indian friends arwe competent fast bowlers ?

    With the English bid I said: Let us be brief. If you give back the Falkland Islands, which belong to us, you will get my vote. They then became sad and left

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    Request Your Custom Title Now! Spikey's Avatar
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    steve smith displayed his michael clarke-esue captaincy skills in the recent Australia A scratch match by deciding to bowl a local bowler when he really didn't have to and probably should not have, and then the local bowler got a wicket. The perfect replacement.


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    International Captain ajdude's Avatar
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    steve rixon, he does everything else

    actually mark neeld
    Last edited by ajdude; 16-06-2013 at 08:45 PM.
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    International Coach social's Avatar
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    I know for a fact that many in the hierarchy of CA didn't want Clarke as captain but there was basically no-one else

    Since being appointed, he has scored a mountain of runs and, aside from India, his on-field captaincy has been excellent

    However, there must be question marks against his man-management skills and its entirely possible that CA's initial fears are starting to materialise

    Furthermore, he is "supported" by a coach who, from the outside, appears to be the wrong man for the job

    In summary, my gut feel is that we have a "leadership group" in name only

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    Virat Kohli (c) Jono's Avatar
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    No doubt Clarke has obviously had some issues with leadership, but surely the biggest issue here is he has no one else underneath him helping out? This is where Watson has been a massive failure. When those two were appointed as C and VC they were a leadership team, and Watson has failed Clarke in his capacity as vice captain. Yes ultimately the responsibility of ill discipline and poor performances falls on the captain but Australia is a really young and inexperienced side right now. The fact Warner was potentially the most senior/experienced bloke at the pub that night says it all really.

    It all comes back to Twatto and the fact that Hussey/Ponting went in quick succession.

    Going to be tough for Clarke to fix this. He needs support and is getting **** all.

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    International Coach uvelocity's Avatar
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    boof lehmann would fix all

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    International Captain LongHopCassidy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Monk View Post
    But (and this is a distinct possibility) what if Clarke misses tests, and Haddin loses form with the bat and gloves (he is getting to the age where WKs start to drop catches)?.
    Wade for captain; clearly wise beyond his years.
    Last edited by LongHopCassidy; 17-06-2013 at 12:07 AM.
    "The Australian cricket captain is the Prime Minister Australia wishes it had. Steve Waugh is that man, Michael Clarke is not." - Jarrod Kimber

    RIP Fardin Qayyumi and Craig Walsh - true icons of CricketWeb.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jono View Post
    No doubt Clarke has obviously had some issues with leadership, but surely the biggest issue here is he has no one else underneath him helping out? This is where Watson has been a massive failure. When those two were appointed as C and VC they were a leadership team, and Watson has failed Clarke in his capacity as vice captain. Yes ultimately the responsibility of ill discipline and poor performances falls on the captain but Australia is a really young and inexperienced side right now. The fact Warner was potentially the most senior/experienced bloke at the pub that night says it all really.

    It all comes back to Twatto and the fact that Hussey/Ponting went in quick succession.

    Going to be tough for Clarke to fix this. He needs support and is getting **** all.
    You're right

    Was going to post something along the lines of "I reckon the thing Oz needs most is to have more than one of the guys with world class talent (e.g. Patto) develop into world class players so that there is a strong core commanding respect rather than just one guy trying to plug about 50 holes in the dyke."

    At present, Clarke can do or say virtually anything as he is indispensible

    If he's right (and tbf, he most has been) then great

    If not, then it's India tour ad infinitum

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    International Captain LongHopCassidy's Avatar
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    Apparently factionalism has set in between Clarke's bois and The Rest (who occupy the whole spectrum of twattishness, funnily enough).

    There was a post on the Roar (I know, I know) that got me thinking and hits the nail on the head for mine: Clarke has a very Kevin Ruddish internal leadership model, pushing himself to his absolute limits and unrelentingly expecting the same standards from everyone else. Some find it inspiring, some bitterly resent it especially when it doesn't yield results for them and the response is 'train harder'. Of course, it's a lot easier to not **** around at training when you've got childhood heroes like Ponting watching on.

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    We are just this series away from having a Simpson like cleanout of the bludgers, misfits, egotists and stirrers. That could mean a new squad but the 1st 3 who should go if we get the 5 blot belting I'm predicting, are Watson (massive sook - utter ****) Warner (drunk - reckons he's a rock star) and Usman. His is the strangest selection. Why pick a man for a squad if you haven't played him bcos of his reputedly poor work ethic? If he's lazy then why pick him at all? I mean its just weird.

    Don't know who could replace them yet but would probably go with Doolan, Bailey and Moises. Ironically our batting is so bad we can send 3 of them to the abattoir and not unduly weaken the team.

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    International Coach social's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by the big bambino View Post
    We are just this series away from having a Simpson like cleanout of the bludgers, misfits, egotists and stirrers. That could mean a new squad but the 1st 3 who should go if we get the 5 blot belting I'm predicting, are Watson (massive sook - utter ****) Warner (drunk - reckons he's a rock star) and Usman. His is the strangest selection. Why pick a man for a squad if you haven't played him bcos of his reputedly poor work ethic? If he's lazy then why pick him at all? I mean its just weird.

    Don't know who could replace them yet but would probably go with Doolan, Bailey and Moises. Ironically our batting is so bad we can send 3 of them to the abattoir and not unduly weaken the team.
    What's strange about Oz cricket atm is that no-one, to the best of my knowledge, has ever accused any bowler other than Johnson of shirking the task whereas the batsmen are constantly in the firing line (even then, it's probably not fair as Mitch is a flake with technical issues not a guy lacking commitment IMO)

    Tbh, aside from Warner (hey Dave, it's ok to leave more than 2 balls in a row outside off-stump), I think that for the most part, it's not lack of commitment - our batsmen simply aren't good enough

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    International Debutant Adders's Avatar
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    I'm glad this thread has been started as I was going to start one in a similar vein but figured coming from a POM it would be taken as a troll by too many posters.

    But since this has been started I'll throw in my two cents but it seems the general consensus is in line with my opinion anyway. I've always rated Clarke, as a player and as a captain and I actually feel for him here, he must be leading the sorriest bunch of Aussie cricketers to ever leave their shores. And I'm not even talking about their ability, of course they were never going to live up to the legacy left by their predecessors but the attitude, commitment and behaviour of too many of them is just plain embarrassing now.

    So the question is, is it the players or the leadership?? Would Taylor, Waugh or Ponting have been able to keep Twatto and Warner et al in line?? Dunno the answer to that but I think the management have to be held accountable for this mess. Clarke can't go clearly, there is no one to replace him and on field he's got the goods, man management can be learnt to some degree I reckon. For whatever reason Mickey Arthur has just not worked out and needs the flick, not sure what you do about the muppets further up the food chain......who sacks them??

    England won't win this series 5-0 (we are not that good) but I think it needs to be a heavy loss for some Aussie heads to roll.

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    Cricket Web Staff Member Burgey's Avatar
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    I think the answer to your question, Adders. is that they would. Border, for example, was so (rightly) monumentally revered that no one would question his authority.

    Taylor came to lead a side with a number of senior blokes who would have stamped out a lot of this **** from the young blokes.

    S Waugh - see Border and Taylor combined.

    Ponting - probably, because he was a hard little bugger.

    I too admire Clarke's tactical nous, but there is plenty of evidence, albeit circumstantial, that he has problems managing a team. His issues with Katich are well known, and those with Watson too. Then there are the rumours about Hussey's retirement and the preponderance of Gen Y schtick in the side.

    At best, there is a schism between Clarke and Watson. At worst there is a broad lack of respect for the team ethos and the captain's ability to engender the right kind of culture within the team.

    That's not necessarily his fault - he's leading a side with few world class batsmen. But by the same token, there comes a time when the selectors may need to do what Sawle, Chappell et al did in the 80s - pick selected young blokes who aren't ready but who have the right mind set to ultimately succeed at test level. I've heard it said it takes a lot of players 25-30 tests to feel like they belong at that level.

    Mind you, if the current selectors tried what their 80s counterparts did, there'd be merry hell to pay.

    The best CA can do is have systems in place which get the best out of the talent available. You can't "make" test standard players per se. But you can engender the right mindset surrounding team culture and individual responsibility.

    Winning masks most everything. No doubt the decline in the way the dressing room functions has been on the slide for quite a while. But if you win, you paper over the cracks.

    It's an interesting time for CA. I don't know who has the balls to rip the joint down and rebuild an edifice in AB's likeness.

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