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Thread: *Official* Road to 2013 Ashes

  1. #1276
    International Regular adub's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tangles View Post
    While his FC record is good there is still a jump in level to Test cricket. I don't see the point unless we swap him for Cowan. If he comes in and doesn't perform immediately the heat will be on because then a short term fix has achieved nothing.
    Of course there's a step up. That why test spots should go to the guys with the best fc records - they're the ones more likely to survive the step up. It's no guarantee, but the odds are much better.

    And why does he have to only be considered a replacement for Cowan. Why can't he come in for Watson or Smith? I think he would do a job for us at 3, but who knows maybe he could come in at 6 and take to it like Hussey? The point is simply that we have guys in the test top 6 who very legitimately could be dropped for consistent failure. The only thing that is saving them is the lack of alternatives. When our alternatives are as sparse as they are it doesn't make sense to put up artificial barriers to potential test batsmen. Rogers is keen, in form and has a record that puts everyone bar Clarke of the available options to shame. That's good enough for me to make him to be the obvious candidate to come in despite his age.

  2. #1277
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    Quote Originally Posted by adub View Post
    His Shield average is 41.8

    Averaged 42.9 or something for Tas
    43.2 or so for Qld
    and is in the 20s for NSW with a top score of 33.

    His last Shield 50 was in Mar 2009 although granted he went on to make a big one with 145.

    His non-test fc record is boosted by a good record in tour games for Australia and a short stint in England where he averaged 80, but you said he'd average 50 in the Shield, and his Shield record in no way indicates that to be right. Even at his best he never did, and the last two years against the red ball have been a long long way short of his best.


    This is a first, someone saying playing at a higher level has unfairly boosted their record.

    Futhermore noting that this higher level success has been recent, but his recent form has been a long way short of his best
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  3. #1278
    International Regular adub's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by benchmark00 View Post


    This is a first, someone saying playing at a higher level has unfairly boosted their record.

    Futhermore noting that this higher level success has been recent, but his recent form has been a long way short of his best
    Oh boo-hoo. You asserted he'd average 50 in the Shield and when I demonstrate that there's no evidence to support that assertion you want to change the goalposts.

    So anyway what are you talking about higher level? Since when did tour games become competitive? Tests are a higher level. Tour games are glorified centre wicket practice and always have been. It's great to make runs or take wickets in them and selectors obviously use them to give potential selections a chance to show what they can do, but the idea that a performance in a tour match is more valuable than what you do in competitive Shield matches is bunk.

    A couple of 50s against a Div 2 Northants attack featuring such fearsome names as Wigley, Lucas, Brooks (on debut), White (called up for his first fc game in a year, the previous one being a tour match against NZ which was also his only fc match in a year) and Willey (debut season) is nice, but it ain't a higher level than Shield. I'll give him the 100* against South Africa A way back in 02 and the twin tons against the Indian Board XI back in 10, not quite test quality attacks, but solid fc quality. But the games are still virtually meaningless practice matches. He was certainly in his best form around that 2010 tour which he backed up with the ton in the test after, but he's been pretty much **** since the end of that year. Hardly the support for the idea that this 'higher level' success has been recent.

    Again this is all a distraction. As I've pointed out it is your assertion that Watson would be Bossing around the Shield bowlers and averaging 50, not mine. He never has and in the form of the last two years he'd be no chance at all. No one is saying he would instantly drop down the pecking order below the likes of Forrest or something stupid like that, just that he isn't Mr Dependable, and he hasn't ever been. Frankly a good summer of playing Shield could be just what he needs. If he did come out and Boss the comp then sure put him back in the Test side. I don't think he's up to it though. He's a short order cook now. White ball or bust pretty much, and even that hasn't been as productive as it once was. If he's bowling then that would get him a lot leeway even from me, but as a batsman he doesn't cut the mustard.

  4. #1279
    Request Your Custom Title Now! benchmark00's Avatar
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    I forgot Chris Rogers, the great white hope of Australia, has been playing against the Windies pacemen circa 1985.


  5. #1280
    Cricket Web Staff Member Burgey's Avatar
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    State 12th Man Valer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by chaminda_00 View Post
    Mid 40s, not 50s like Rogers. A class below.

    Cowan is just a poor mans Chris Rogers.
    ... Belreive has been *MUCH* harder to score on than the waca. I'd be highly suprised if those numbers didn't reverse if you switched the home states...

    On watson bowling you mean like he's claimed he is going to do?
    Last edited by Valer; 17-04-2013 at 01:19 AM.

  7. #1282
    International Captain Maximas's Avatar
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    It's easy to think our batting stocks are crap, but the India tour really blew things out of proportion. That tour was marred by poor bowling, poor preparation and poor selection, as well as doctored pitches which turned far more than normal (not saying it was unfair - it made for exiting cricket). The series against SA and SL to some extent show what he really have to offer in an Ashes series. Cowan and Warner both scored hundreds in the SA series, Hughes played well against the Lankans, Watson struggled in both, and Clarke excelled of course. That leaves one batsmen to come in (from the end of the summer) given Hussey's retirement. Would Rogers suit the role? I don't think so - too many openers, and Khawaja seems destined for the role. But I certainly think Rogers deserves to make the squad.

  8. #1283
    International Vice-Captain MW1304's Avatar
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    You certainly were exiting the crease a lot yeah.

  9. #1284
    Hall of Fame Member chaminda_00's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Valer View Post
    ... Belreive has been *MUCH* harder to score on than the waca. I'd be highly suprised if those numbers didn't reverse if you switched the home states...
    The thing people seem to forgot is that domestic pitches in Australia the last five years have gone one season roads, next season bowler friendly.

    Not surprisingly the season that the pitches have been road Cowan averaged 50 (09/10 and 11/12), when everyone was averaging over 50.

    The one full season he played on the tough Bellerive pitch (10/11) he average in the mid 30s. Last season when the pitches are bowler friendly again he only played four games and went back to norm for him of averaging in the 20s.

    Cowan has actually never scored big runs consistently on the tougher Bellerive pitches. All his runs have come in the season of roads.

    Th MCG overall is easier to bat on; Rogers hasn't played for WA for a couple season now. Moved around the same time as Cowan. But the difference is his performances don't change as much depending on the whether the Australia domestic pitches are roads or bowler friendly.
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  10. #1285
    Eyes not spreadsheets marc71178's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by benchmark00 View Post


    This is a first, someone saying playing at a higher level has unfairly boosted their record.
    Except that's not what he said - he said non-Test FC tour games which are generally played against weakened opposition.
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  11. #1286
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    Watch me change my mind with the input of marc71178!

  12. #1287
    International Captain Maximas's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by benchmark00 View Post
    Watch me change my mind with the input of marc71178!
    who cares if you change your mind, enough people disagree with you

  13. #1288
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maximas View Post
    who cares if you change your mind, enough people disagree with you
    Mate youre advocating a bloke you haven't seen play for five years. It is genuinely the worst kind of posting. Basing your opinion on cricinfo scorecards. Are you seriously still posting?

  14. #1289
    International Captain Maximas's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by benchmark00 View Post
    Mate youre advocating a bloke you haven't seen play for five years. It is genuinely the worst kind of posting. Basing your opinion on cricinfo scorecards. Are you seriously still posting?
    Just because I haven't seen him play doesn't make him a bad/unjustified selection. At least I'm basing my opinion on something, you go around saying "Watson would smash the SS and average at least 50" and call that better evidence than I'm going off. At least the scorecards don't lie.

    In any case, I'm not saying he should necessarily be in the final 11, but he has a much better claim than many other batsmen in Australia to a squad position.

  15. #1290
    Request Your Custom Title Now! benchmark00's Avatar
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    wtf, did you miss the part where Watson has averaged 50 in FC cricket?

    No one can respect an opinion about a cricketer if that opinion is based upon looking at a scorecard and nothing else.



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