Australia v England - Coaching

[howardj]

I feel strongly about AB and the banning of the WAGs.

As outlined by Stuart MacGill (who is a very angry man about most things, I guess lol), the WAGs did have an impact on the 2005 Ashes tour where he stated that he'd go down to the hotel bar at the end of a day's play for a soft drink, and find that there was nobody there to have a drink or meal with - as they'd all gone off to do their own thing.

As Warne eluded to in the Heradld Sun today, these guys in the current side should not be shooting off straight after stumps to do their own thing but rather spending time together in the dressing room after play and in the hotel at night. They are unfamiliar with each other and as a consequence, as Steve Waugh said in the paper today, there is no sense of 'team' among this current group.

Yes, the WAGs can sleep over, but should not be subtracting from the time the guys need to spend together in dressing rooms and at the hotel after play.

A little thing, yes, but when you're ranked 5th, you need to get a whole lot of little things right to bridge the gap.

[GotSpin]

Originally Posted by howardj

I feel strongly about AB and the banning of the WAGs.

As outlined by Stuart MacGill (who is a very angry man about most things, I guess lol), the WAGs did have an impact on the 2005 Ashes tour where he stated that he'd go down to the hotel bar at the end of a day's play for a soft drink, and find that there was nobody there to have a drink or meal with - as they'd all gone off to do their own thing.

As Warne eluded to in the Heradld Sun today, these guys in the current side should not be shooting off straight after stumps to do their own thing but rather spending time together in the dressing room after play and in the hotel at night. They are unfamiliar with each other and as a consequence, as Steve Waugh said in the paper today, there is no sense of 'team' among this current group.

Yes, the WAGs can sleep over, but should not be subtracting from the time the guys need to spend together in dressing rooms and at the hotel after play.

A little thing, yes, but when you're ranked 5th, you need to get a whole lot of little things right to bridge the gap.

Quite true actually. I know for a fact that once they get off at the hotel after the days play they all go and do what they want with the WAGs

[howardj]

Exactly.

That's not good.

[GotSpin]

Aside from the days play, they only spend time together at the teams breakfast

[vic_orthdox]

The settled team that England has is also a huge boon to them in comparison to our mob. Even today, players have their designated roles in the field, and who should be shining the ball. They keep getting it into the right man's hands (Cook, from memory) who helps get it in a condition for reverse swing; fast bowlers bowl cross-seamed deliveries to work to a plan.

I couldn't see an Australian bowler doing that at the moment, because if someone else reaps the rewards of their work in scuffing up the ball, then they could be out on their arse. I can't see us having someone being a designated ball shiner (maybe that's the reason North was held onto for so long...). We get reverse and look to bowl yorkers and search for wickets; Anderson (and others) get it right by still gnawing away at the batsman.

On another note, I remember mentioning in the first or second thread about how Finn looked great, but seemed a bit impatient - his plan to get someone out seemed to be contained within about 4-6 balls, and would last no more than an over. Think it's pretty much been that all series for Australia, where they're not prepared to bang away for overs at a time before searching for a wicket. If they want to get someone out hooking, then you put a bloke back and bowl at least two bouncers that over. If that doesn't work, it's onto a new plan. The lack of patience is further compounded when Johnson is one of your bowlers.

[GingerFurball]

Agree and disagree about the WAGs. It's important for the guys to spend time together to bond as a team, but the guys need their own space as well. I'd get cabin fever spending 2-3 months with the same people.

[zaremba]

Originally Posted by GingerFurball

Agree and disagree about the WAGs. It's important for the guys to spend time together to bond as a team, but the guys need their own space as well. I'd get cabin fever spending 2-3 months with the same people.

Yep. The idea that the players don't spend enough time in each other's company in the course of an Ashes series strikes me as strange. For weeks and months on end they travel together, play together, train together and sit in a dressing room together. I don't see why, on top of that, they need to spend all evening gazing into each others' eyes.

[howardj]

Originally Posted by zaremba

Yep. The idea that the players don't spend enough time in each other's company in the course of an Ashes series strikes me as strange. For weeks and months on end they travel together, play together, train together and sit in a dressing room together. I don't see why, on top of that, they need to spend all evening gazing into each others' eyes.

lol

we were saying after a day's play in the dressing room, and meals and a drink together at night - during Tests.

[pup11]

Australia has not only been outplayed in this Ashes series but they have also been a distant 2nd best when it comes to planning and improving through the course of the 5 tests.
I certainly think that whether a player is making a basic error or a major one, its still upto the coach to point it out to him and make sure he doesn't repeat it again.
So as a result we saw Watson being involved in three run-outs, the top order getting knocked over in identical fashion over and over again and of course the none of the fast bowlers ever bothered to bowl in the batsman's half.
Hence it was almost like watching the same game over and over again, because there wasn't a slightest hint of improvement in the performance of any player and coaching staff is surely to be blamed for that to some extent.

[marc71178]

Originally Posted by howardj

lol

we were saying after a day's play in the dressing room, and meals and a drink together at night - during Tests.

It is an interesting point - I know that early in the tour the England team were going out together for meals and enjoying each other's company and it started well.

Then the families arrived (just before Perth) - wonder how much of a short-term effect that had on performances? (it's understandable that they would want to spend time with their family after not seeing them for so long though)

[Uppercut]

I find it hard to believe it makes any kind of difference tbh. Some players might feel a greater sense of team spirit, others might miss their loved ones and feel a bit low, perhaps it occasionally affects a player's performance one way or the other but meh. Not worth worrying about when you could be practicing catching.

[Spark]

Originally Posted by vic_orthdox

The settled team that England has is also a huge boon to them in comparison to our mob. Even today, players have their designated roles in the field, and who should be shining the ball. They keep getting it into the right man's hands (Cook, from memory) who helps get it in a condition for reverse swing; fast bowlers bowl cross-seamed deliveries to work to a plan.

I couldn't see an Australian bowler doing that at the moment, because if someone else reaps the rewards of their work in scuffing up the ball, then they could be out on their arse. I can't see us having someone being a designated ball shiner (maybe that's the reason North was held onto for so long...). We get reverse and look to bowl yorkers and search for wickets; Anderson (and others) get it right by still gnawing away at the batsman.

On another note, I remember mentioning in the first or second thread about how Finn looked great, but seemed a bit impatient - his plan to get someone out seemed to be contained within about 4-6 balls, and would last no more than an over. Think it's pretty much been that all series for Australia, where they're not prepared to bang away for overs at a time before searching for a wicket. If they want to get someone out hooking, then you put a bloke back and bowl at least two bouncers that over. If that doesn't work, it's onto a new plan. The lack of patience is further compounded when Johnson is one of your bowlers.

The way they got the ball to reverse after about 20 overs at both Sydney and Melbourne was bloody impressive.

[GingerFurball]

Originally Posted by marc71178

It is an interesting point - I know that early in the tour the England team were going out together for meals and enjoying each other's company and it started well.

Then the families arrived (just before Perth) - wonder how much of a short-term effect that had on performances? (it's understandable that they would want to spend time with their family after not seeing them for so long though)

I can only speak from my own experience of interailing around Europe for a month with my flatmates, but there comes a point where you're sick of travelling and sick of spending so much time in each other's pockets. And in my limited experience as a father, I couldn't spend that long away from the missus and my daughter without it seriously affecting me.

[Spark]

I have to disagree with howardj here. Extended periods away will naturally lead to worries about families etc - it's a distraction that they, who are after all still human beings - don't need.

[sixfoursingle]

Originally Posted by GingerFurball

I can only speak from my own experience of interailing around Europe for a month with my flatmates, but there comes a point where you're sick of travelling and sick of spending so much time in each other's pockets. And in my limited experience as a father, I couldn't spend that long away from the missus and my daughter without it seriously affecting me.

I think there's a balance to be struck. Remeber, a cricket tour is a buisness trip, not a holiday and people who go on buinsess trips don't get their families sent with them. That said, it is a long trip. Team spirit seemed good, so I guess they got the balance right this time.