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Thread: Do England batsmen struggle on fast bouncy tracks?

  1. #16
    Virat Kohli (c) Jono's Avatar
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    Evermind doesn't work in facts, just trolling posts.

    He's still bitter that he's going to lose the long-term Ponting vs. Sachin runs bet against me. Hence why he lashes out
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  3. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Prince EWS View Post
    Who does Evermind actually support?
    Whoever play India by the looks of it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by vcs View Post
    Whoever play India by the looks of it.
    I actually used to think he was a really, really pessimistic Indian fan. I think it's obvious that's not the case now but that's what I thought when I first came across him.


  5. #20
    Hall of Fame Member Howe_zat's Avatar
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    Well the typical veiw is that English batsmen will be weaker against real pace and bounce but stronger against the swinging ball, in contrast to the Aussies and South Africans.

    Overall, however, I think it's very much up to the technique of the batsman in question, and that conditions are overplayed anyway. A team will play together and will always have to face the same bowling performance - be it quality (Steyn & Morkel at Johannesburg, Johnson at the WACA) or ****house (Ntini at Durban, Johnson at the Gabba).

    For example, Andrew Strauss, a very orthodox back-foot left hander, has a very different style to Paul Collingwood, a right-handed nudger who's grafted his style from being a bits-and-pieces player. Nonetheless, their records remain similar because of playing in the same team for so long.
    Every 5 years we have an election and have to decide who are the least obnoxious out of all the men. Then one gets in and they age really quickly. Which is always fun to watch.

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    International Coach morgieb's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Prince EWS View Post
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  7. #22
    Cricket Web: All-Time Legend Uppercut's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by vic_orthdox View Post
    You could argue that guys like Strauss, Cook and Collingwood, who only ever get half forward and don't get out of their crease to defend on the front foot, get found out a bit more on the front foot - especially in defence - on pitches with that sort of carry.

    Not entirely sure that it's the case, but it's a possible reason?
    Hmm. Strauss, Cook and Collingwood all have very obvious (and similar) weaknesses though. I know Jono's list wasn't meant to be a comprehensive list of England's batting collapses, but he hasn't included any of the matches played against Pakistan last summer when those three barely made a run between them, nor has he included the first innings at Brisbane.

    If he had, the common factor wouldn't be particularly bouncy pitches, it would be accurate bowling. The pitch on the first innings at Lord's in the last Ashes was at least as quick as the one at Cape Town '09, but England didn't struggle in the slightest. Because Australia bowled filth.

    I'd say that on any pitch that you wouldn't go out of your way to describe as "slow", if you get the ball full in the corridor to these guys often enough, you'll get them out. If you don't, they'll score runs. It's that simple, IMO.
    Quote Originally Posted by zaremba View Post
    The Filth have comfortably the better bowling. But the Gash have the batting. Might be quite good to watch.

  8. #23
    vcs
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    Quote Originally Posted by Uppercut View Post
    Hmm. Strauss, Cook and Collingwood all have very obvious (and similar) weaknesses though. I know Jono's list wasn't meant to be a comprehensive list of England's batting collapses, but he hasn't included any of the matches played against Pakistan last summer when those three barely made a run between them, nor has he included the first innings at Brisbane.

    If he had, the common factor wouldn't be particularly bouncy pitches, it would be accurate bowling. The pitch on the first innings at Lord's in the last Ashes was at least as quick as the one at Cape Town '09, but England didn't struggle in the slightest. Because Australia bowled filth.

    I'd say that on any pitch that you wouldn't go out of your way to describe as "slow", if you get the ball full in the corridor to these guys often enough, you'll get them out. If you don't, they'll score runs. It's that simple, IMO.
    Nothing in that is specific to England, it is common to all batting lineups in the world.

  9. #24
    Hall of Fame Member Son Of Coco's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Uppercut View Post
    I'd say that on any pitch that you wouldn't go out of your way to describe as "slow", if you get the ball full in the corridor to these guys often enough, you'll get them out. If you don't, they'll score runs. It's that simple, IMO.
    Yes, strongly agree with this.
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  10. #25
    Cricket Web: All-Time Legend Uppercut's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by vcs View Post
    Nothing in that is specific to England, it is common to all batting lineups in the world.
    Definitely, but it's especially true of those particular three batsmen.

  11. #26
    Cricket Web: All-Time Legend Mister Wright's Avatar
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    In the first innings Strauss & Cook did not look uncomfortable at all. Cook played a lose shot and opened up new batsmen to an 'all-of-a-sudden' world beating Johnson spell. Obviously they lost a bit of confidence from that and Australia got on a roll off the back of it.

    Both teams bowled really well in that match, and England bowled Australia out for winnable totals, and it was only the first innings collapse from 0/70 odd to all out for 260 odd that lost them the game.

    I think the Perth result was less about England not playing bounce well, and more about Australia suddenly getting on top. Although, after Australia got on top the lack of confidence on the bouncier decks could have played a factor.
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  12. #27
    International Vice-Captain centurymaker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mister Wright View Post
    In the first innings Strauss & Cook did not look uncomfortable at all. Cook played a lose shot and opened up new batsmen to an 'all-of-a-sudden' world beating Johnson spell. Obviously they lost a bit of confidence from that and Australia got on a roll off the back of it.

    Both teams bowled really well in that match, and England bowled Australia out for winnable totals, and it was only the first innings collapse from 0/70 odd to all out for 260 odd that lost them the game.

    I think the Perth result was less about England not playing bounce well, and more about Australia suddenly getting on top. Although, after Australia got on top the lack of confidence on the bouncier decks could have played a factor.
    180 odd actually IIRC

  13. #28
    Hall of Fame Member TT Boy's Avatar
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    Durban is the second quickest track in the Republic and is notorious for its bounce. In contrast, Cape Town is the slowest and Centurion hasnít been quick in years. England do struggle on quick surfaces but the aforementioned are not the best examples.

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