Michael "Frosty" Beer

[Edged&Taken]

[iamdavid]

Headline writer's dream....and probably an English batsman's too

[Rant0r]

Originally Posted by benchmark00

You're very reliant on stats aren't you?

Have you watched Beer bowl?

I'm not defending his decision, as I've only seen him bowl for a little bit once, but judging your outrage purely on stats is pretty one dimensional imo.

There's stats and there's stats. Beer hasn't had enough opportunity to prove YET that he's good enough, the selectors on the other hand feel otherwise. Doherty on the other hand has had countless FC games to prove he is not, despite the fact that he clearly rates himself.

But then Krejza and Hauritz are clearly better spinners with poor First Class records, although Hauritza has gone some way to improve that this year

[andyc]

Originally Posted by benchmark00

You're very reliant on stats aren't you?

Have you watched Beer bowl?

I'm not defending his decision, as I've only seen him bowl for a little bit once, but judging your outrage purely on stats is pretty one dimensional imo.

Yeah, happy to concede that. I definitely haven't watched him bowl, and so the only way to judge him really is from looking at how he's gone this season, and it's clear that the reasons giving by the selectors for picking him - that he's done well this season and he's a local - don't add up when you look at his figures. Just don't see much reasoning behind his selection, other than Shane Warne saying something good about him one time.

[benchmark00]

Originally Posted by Rant0r

There's stats and there's stats. Beer hasn't had enough opportunity to prove YET that he's good enough, the selectors on the other hand feel otherwise. Doherty on the other hand has had countless FC games to prove he is not, despite the fact that he clearly rates himself.

But then Krejza and Hauritz are clearly better spinners with poor First Class records, although Hauritza has gone some way to improve that this year

The selectors have obviously selected Beer by looking at him play and liking what they see. I certainly wouldn't have done the same, however I've seen SFA of him, whereas they, presumably, have had a few good looks at him and liked his game.

Seeing him live > Looking at his cricinfo page and passing judgment.

[Rant0r]

O'Keefe must have hit on Hilditch's daughter or something.

I'd be happy to concede if Beer does well. Having seen both Doherty and O'Keefe before Doherty was preferred, I was rather confused.

[andyc]

Originally Posted by benchmark00

The selectors have obviously selected Beer by looking at him play and liking what they see. I certainly wouldn't have done the same, however I've seen SFA of him, whereas they, presumably, have had a few good looks at him and liked his game.

Seeing him live > Looking at his cricinfo page and passing judgment.

Thing is that they clearly went through the same process when selecting Doherty and it didn't really work out. We've clearly got no world beaters as spinners atm, so the best bet would be to go for the bloke with the good record.

[benchmark00]

Originally Posted by andyc

Thing is that they clearly went through the same process when selecting Doherty and it didn't really work out. We've clearly got no world beaters as spinners atm, so the best bet would be to go for the bloke with the good record.

I'd say they went with the opposite rationale with Doherty i.e. Seeing he had taken a few wickets in domestic cricket lately, then in the ODI's then getting him in.

Doherty's selection was more based on recent stats and KP's 'troubles' with left armers, than actually liking his bowling.

[Ruckus]

Originally Posted by andyc

Thing is that they clearly went through the same process when selecting Doherty and it didn't really work out. We've clearly got no world beaters as spinners atm, so the best bet would be to go for the bloke with the good record.

You have to do both imo. Watching someone alone isn't sufficient enough either. E.g. Ferguson looks pretty awesome when you just watch him, but he still has a mediocre record. Hilfenhaus looks better than his record suggests as well imo, but he just doesn't take that many wickets for whatever reason.

[Sylvester]

The selectors did do pretty similar when picking Krejza, and his debut certainly was an interesting one. Will see what happens with this one but how long will they keep faith in whatever they saw? He should get the series unless he has a McGain like disaster where he'll be put into the never again pile. What I don't get is how O'Keefe can go from the Aus A spinner and doing well to being behind Doherty and now Beer. Yes I know hes in 2nd 11 essentially, but so to was Hauritz when he was picked by the same selectors. The selectors saw something in O'Keefe to pick him, maybe through some injuries too, but his stats make for awesome reading atm and he did nothing wrong against England A.

[Redbacks]

Well there has been suggestions we resemble a pub team. This just takes things one step further.

[stephen]

Hilditch: Guys, we have to select a spinner. Smith isn't there quite yet and we need him to bat for us. What options do we have? We can't pick Hauritz because he didn't do great in that place where Warnie got smashed around. Hmmm speaking of Warnie, didn't he mention a spinner the other day?

Chappell: Yeah Warnie mentioned a guy named Beer.

Hilditch: Beer hey? Sounds like a great name. Let's pick him.

Chappell: But he's got an ordinary record and isn't a prodigy like Warnie.

Hilditch: Warnie says it, we do it. Don't you want him to announce his return in time for Melbourne?

Chappell: *sigh*

[Noble One]

The mismanagement of Australian spinners by the selectors has been truly poor. The selectors are not at fault for the quality of bowlers on the circuit, but some logic in selections would be fantastic.

Looking back to Bangladesh in 2006 when the selectors made the good call of selecting Dan Cullen. That was a forward thinking move, Cullen was coming off a massive 43 first class wicket season and looked a supreme talent. The selectors simply cut him off after the one Test he played. How about keeping him around the ODI setup? Four years later, and Cullen almost looks stamped as 'career over' at the age of 26.

The selection of Beau Casson at the time was questionable, and yet considering what has happened in the past month would pass as a good move today. They give Casson one Test match, he actually bowls quite well, and then they never select him again. Casson suffers from a complete loss of confidence and will now likely make the NSW team more for his batting than his bowling. At 28, another career looks destroyed.

They take White to India as the number one spinner. This is despite the fact that White has almost completely ceased bowling his leg-breaks. Is it a shock that White struggles to take a wicket?

Selecting Krejza was a brave move considering he had done little in his first class career other than show the ability to bowl a massive off-break. In a surprise twist, Krejza bowls out of his skin in India. They bring him back to Australia, and discard him after one Test. Surely he was worth persisting with?

McGain should have been persisted with for more than 1 Test. It was a terrible performance by him, but considering they gave North > 20 Tests to prove himself a failure, how about give the only consistent spinner in this country of the past 5 years more of a chance.

They select the completely underserving Hauritz and he proves to be a solid Test spinner. Discarded after one poor series in India (despite returning from a massive layoff). They select the promising Smith, he does better than many expected, and then the selectors have hardly shown interest again until today. They select the proven first class failure in Doherty based on 1 good first class game, and 2 good ODI games. It’s funny how the bowler with a first class average of 50 struggles to take a wicket at Test level.. Let's not forget they took Holland to India two seasons ago for the experience, and then never take a look at him again. They take O'Keefe to England, they select him for Australia 'A' and now don't want to touch him.

....and Michael Beer...WTF???????? I worry that Chris Simpson might return for Queensland and take three wickets and be selected for Australia. What is going on at the moment?

[Howe_zat]

Wow. 10 spinners. 10. They've actually made it into double figures. Of course, in that time, Warne, McGill, Hogg have all played, bringing that total up to an impressive 13. Lucky?

Over the same period, England have selected only four - Swann, Panesar, Giles, and Tredwell.

[Ruckus]

Originally Posted by stephen

Hilditch: Guys, we have to select a spinner. Smith isn't there quite yet and we need him to bat for us. What options do we have? We can't pick Hauritz because he didn't do great in that place where Warnie got smashed around. Hmmm speaking of Warnie, didn't he mention a spinner the other day?

Chappell: Yeah Warnie mentioned a guy named Beer.

Hilditch: Beer hey? Sounds like a great name. Let's pick him.

Chappell: But he's got an ordinary record and isn't a prodigy like Warnie.

Hilditch: Warnie says it, we do it. Don't you want him to announce his return in time for Melbourne?

Chappell: *sigh*

I would not be suprised if that's similar to how these selections come about. It just screams of laziness. Hilditch probably made the decision over the phone while he was walking his dog along the beach again...