Who is really to blame for Australia's batting collapses post 2007 in Ashes series?

[Jacknife]

Originally Posted by Burgey

Englishman?










Oh no, don't say that!!! It's so old that line, you can't use it at all. Neither can Chimpy or the other crims/ convicts... Chortle ****ing chortle.

Always knew the Poms had pasty skin (for the most part, there are notable exceptions I wish to stress). Just never realised it was so thin.

Nah mate, get stuck in if it makes you feel better.

[Jacknife]

Originally Posted by Burgey

Englishman?










Oh no, don't say that!!! It's so old that line, you can't use it at all. Neither can Chimpy or the other crims/ convicts... Chortle ****ing chortle.

Always knew the Poms had pasty skin (for the most part, there are notable exceptions I wish to stress). Just never realised it was so thin.

Nah mate, get stuck in, if it makes you feel better.

[GotSpin]

Originally Posted by GeraintIsMyHero

Get used to it. That'll be your avatar for either a year or two come January.

pfftt. I'll get myself banned for two years if the worst happens

[stephen]

Originally Posted by Burgey

Englishman?










Oh no, don't say that!!! It's so old that line, you can't use it at all. Neither can Chimpy or the other crims/ convicts... Chortle ****ing chortle.

Always knew the Poms had pasty skin (for the most part, there are notable exceptions I wish to stress). Just never realised it was so thin.

Q: What's worse than being an Englishman?
A: Choosing to be an Englishman because you're too crap to play for your own country.

[Spark]

I think I posted before the series some stats on the conversion rates. I'll post them again, for the last three years - basically in the time where since we've been truly dominant. These are figures only counting innings where a start has been made - 25 runs or more.

PHP Code:

Player   Span   Mat   Inns   NO   Runs   HS   Ave   BF   SR   100   50   0   4s   6s   
MJ Clarke   2007-2010   28   35   5   2653   168   88.43   4997   53.09   9   14   0   286   5    
RT Ponting   2008-2010   29   34   1   2523   209   76.45   4000   63.07   6   18   0   300   9   
MEK Hussey   2007-2010   28   35   4   2257   195   72.80   4872   46.32   5   15   0   260   5     
SM Katich   2008-2010   28   38   1   2678   157   72.37   5443   49.20   8   17   0   299   6  
BJ Haddin   2008-2010   21   26   3   1497   169   65.08   2432   61.55   3   6   0   175   25   
SR Watson   2008-2010   17   26   2   1549   126   64.54   2919   53.06   2   13   0   211   10 


Really, you would want more 80, 85+ averages there and certainly you don't want low seventies and sixties (Haddin's is a bit of a surprise, shows that he's getting a lot starts and not kicking on at all, based on his low number of 50+ scores in a similar number of innings to Watson).

Now compare to some of the figures for the previous few years:

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 Span   Mat   Inns   NO   Runs   HS   Ave   BF   SR   100   50   0   4s   6s   
RT Ponting   2005-2007   16   23   5   2017   196   112.05   3315   60.84   10   9   0   210   7          
MEK Hussey   2005-2007   16   23   6   1823   182   107.23   3353   54.36   7   8   0   207   15 


Those are North-like figures but with Katich/Watson like consistency from Ponting. That's where he's gone wrong.

[vic_orthdox]

Haddin's gotten out a few times batting with the tail, having to go the slog. Going to bring his average down quite a bit.

[Spark]

That's a good point. It was just interesting to see Haddin's average way down there considering he hasn't made a lot of 50+ scores, but still has three hundreds.

Also interesting to note Ponting's SR. Obviously not a complete sample, but it shows he's not struggling.

[GingerFurball]

Wonder if DeusEx and TumTum will reconsider their opinion in light of this series.

Brisbane apart, Australia's highest score of the series has been 309, with Hussey the only player to ton up. England on the other hand have scored 517/1, 620/5, 513 and 644 with all of their top order bats except Collingwood at some point chipping in with big hundreds.

You can bemoan your poor bowling/batting all you want, but the scoring of both sides this series completely vindicates what Jack and TEC were saying earlier about batsmen needing to score centuries.

[Ruckus]

The reason we have lost is not because our batsmen have failed to scored centuries, it is because they have piss poor averages across the series. Hussey, Watson, Haddin aside all of the other top order batsmen have sub-25 series averages.

[morgieb]

I still maintain that our batting is awful but we can't change around with it as much because most of the duds are still the best available player.

[GingerFurball]

Originally Posted by DeusEx

The reason we have lost is not because our batsmen have failed to scored centuries, it is because they have piss poor averages across the series. Hussey, Watson, Haddin aside all of the other top order batsmen have sub-25 series averages.

Because they're not making big runs.

[Ruckus]

Originally Posted by GingerFurball

Because they're not making big runs.

Big runs=big average.

[Top_Cat]

It's not just how many, though. When you score matters. Scoring a big ton in the current second dig, for example, will mean very little having scored < 300 on day 1 when the game was up for grabs (or 98, as the case may be....).

[vic_orthdox]

Originally Posted by DeusEx

The reason we have lost is not because our batsmen have failed to scored centuries, it is because they have piss poor averages across the series. Hussey, Watson, Haddin aside all of the other top order batsmen have sub-25 series averages.

Cause and effect. The reason that they performed poorly was not because they have bad averages. It's because they didn't make runs, which leads to a bad average...

A batsman's job is not to keep a good average, it's to make runs regularly.

[Ruckus]

Originally Posted by Top_Cat

It's not just how many, though. When you score matters. Scoring a big ton in the current second dig, for example, will mean very little having scored < 300 on day 1 when the game was up for grabs (or 98, as the case may be....).

Yeah that's true, but it's a different point to the one that was argued ages ago (which GingerFurball was referring to).