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Thread: Who is really to blame for Australia's batting collapses post 2007 in Ashes series?

  1. #211
    International Captain Ruckus's Avatar
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    Watson and Hayden atm have the same averages as openers. So everytime Hayden will be converting his starts and making 100's, the other times he will also be failing when Watson makes another 50.

    Tbh if Watson can maintain an average 50 across his career as opener without scoring many tons, I would prefer that to a Hayden like opener who scores many high scores and many low scores. For a simple reason: the former would be protecting the lower order batsmen from the new ball more often than the latter.

  2. #212
    International Captain Ruckus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Top_Cat View Post
    Think you're discounting the psychological aspect of a bloke scoring a ton against you. Someone scoring 150 then 20 is going to hurt you more than the same bloke scoring an even number of runs in each innings. A bloke going onto a ton is also going to lift his team-mates more than a guy who gets a high 50, the feeling of the later is more of a job half-done. The team capital and confidence drawn from a ton is just far more than a couple of 50's.
    What about the negative psychological impact when he gets the 20? Collapses occur from that...

  3. #213
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    Quote Originally Posted by DeusEx View Post
    What about the negative psychological impact when he gets the 20? Collapses occur from that...
    He's not really winning test matches for his country either with just half centuries.

    Big centuries are what wins your side matches, not reasonable contributions
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    Put me in the "all runs are equal" camp. Can't believe what I'm hearing in this thead.
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  5. #215
    Global Moderator Spark's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Top_Cat View Post
    Think you're discounting the psychological aspect of a bloke scoring a ton against you. Someone scoring 150 then 20 is going to hurt you more than the same bloke scoring an even number of runs in each innings. A bloke going onto a ton is also going to lift his team-mates more than a guy who gets a high 50, the feeling of the later is more of a job half-done. The team capital and confidence drawn from a ton is just far more than a couple of 50's.
    To be fair a bloke scoring a pair of 85's in each innings is pretty useful. Katman to confirm.
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  6. #216
    Cricket Web: All-Time Legend Top_Cat's Avatar
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    No way are they equal, in my view.
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  7. #217
    International Captain Ruckus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Got_Spin View Post
    He's not really winning test matches for his country either with just half centuries.

    Big centuries are what wins your side matches, not reasonable contributions
    In other words high averages for a match...

  8. #218
    Cricket Web: All-Time Legend Top_Cat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spark View Post
    To be fair a bloke scoring a pair of 85's in each innings is pretty useful. Katman to confirm.
    Bloke who scores big in the first dig far more useful. Waugh and Sehwag to confirm.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Top_Cat View Post
    No way are they equal, in my view.
    It's Milkshakes vs L.O.D all over again!

  10. #220
    Global Moderator Spark's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Top_Cat View Post
    No way are they equal, in my view.
    Oh yeah I'd take the first for sure because he's much more likely to set up an innings and hence a match in a very big way. You wouldn't say no to the latter though.

  11. #221
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    Quote Originally Posted by Top_Cat View Post
    Bloke who scores big in the first dig far more useful. Waugh and Sehwag to confirm.
    Laxman, Gavaskar to deny haha

  12. #222
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    Whether it's first or second dig it is crucial IMO that if you have a good chance to get a big score (and reaching 50 constitutes that) you really make it count.

    I mean, look at Bell's innings in this series. You can't honestly say his 50s have hurt us that badly - his hundred, however, has.

  13. #223
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spark View Post
    I mean, look at Bell's innings in this series. You can't honestly say his 50s have hurt us that badly - his hundred, however, has.
    It's because it's Bell and he got an Ashes 100

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    Quote Originally Posted by Spark View Post
    Whether it's first or second dig it is crucial IMO that if you have a good chance to get a big score (and reaching 50 constitutes that) you really make it count.

    I mean, look at Bell's innings in this series. You can't honestly say his 50s have hurt us that badly - his hundred, however, has.
    To be fair, his innings at Adelaide denied you the chance to bowl us out in a 4th innings

  15. #225
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    Quote Originally Posted by DeusEx View Post
    Assuming the match context etc. is kept the same, scoring two 50s is the same as scoring 100 then 0. The match total is exactly the same, how is it any different?

    All this series has proved is that the value of even a single batsmen averaging highly across the series is immense. E.g. Hussey almost single-handedly put certain results in our favour - yes, he scored 100's along the way, but it wouldn't have mattered if all his scores were 75's (or whatever his series average was).



    Which translates to: "Watson needs to average more". Which I think is pretty unreasonable given he is already averaging 50 or so.
    No, this series has proven the value of cashing in in the first innings. Every England victory has followed the same pattern - Australia put up a sub par score, England rack up a massive total and bowl Australia out for an innings win.

    A batsman's job is not to average 50. It is to score enough runs to allow the team to win matches. Watson might be averaging close to 50 for the series, but he has scored his runs in such a manner that Australia have been behind the 8ball more often than not.

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