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Thread: Player Ratings - As We Go By...

  1. #76
    Hall of Fame Member Furball's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by vic_orthdox View Post
    To be fair, Watson's taken full responsibility for making a "soft call" that couldn't be heard properly.
    Quote Originally Posted by benchmark00 View Post
    Although there was undoubtedly a single there, Watson has admitted his call was nowhere near loud enough.
    Fair enough, hadn't read that. Still makes Katich guilty of ball-watching, so still not unlucky.

  2. #77
    Eternal Optimist / Cricket Web Staff Member GIMH's Avatar
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    Good Guys

    Strauss - 0 for batting, 10 for captaincy. Let's say 5. Declaration was spot on.
    Cook - 9. In the form of his life.
    Trott - 8 - might not be box office, but he is playing bloody well.
    Pietersen - 10. Declared himself an all-rounder after removing Clarke, who am I to argue. Piled the misery on Australia and took probably the most important wicket.
    Collingwood - 5.5. Steady with the bat, useful in the field. Did enough.
    Bell - 7. Good innings, easy though the going was he still managed to look a million dollars.
    Prior - 5.5. Steady but could have cost us with his drop. Should buy James Anderson a pint.
    Broad - 4.5. Looked good without the end product but supported Anderson well on day one.
    Swann - 9. Did his job in the first dig, won us the game in the second. A true national hero.
    Anderson - 8. World class on days one and five. Disappointing on day four.
    Finn - 6. Atrocious first dig but came back well second time. Hussey ball might not have been an ATG but the execution was spot on.

    clowns

    Katich - 3. His dismissal set it all off.
    Twatto - 4.5. Hasn't got it in him to score big ones but did okay both innings. Bowled like he was playing a practical joke on somebody, on day two.
    Chimpy - 0. It's pasag's fault for making that tribute thread.
    Clarke - 5. Got a pearler first dig but fought back well second time. Doesn't have the balls to see the day out. Would lose points for letting his dismissal be reviewed but as he apologised I'll let him off.
    Hussey - 6. Did well both times, but the shot to get out was slightly questionable.
    North - 10. Integral to England's retention hopes.
    Haddin - 4.5. Ok first dig, did nothing in the second,
    Harris - 4. Australia's best bowler. Although that is like having the best vision on the blind ward.
    Doherty - 1. Seems like a nice lad.
    Siddle - 2. Hat-trick seems a long time ago.
    Bollinger - 1. Atrocious.
    Last edited by GIMH; 07-12-2010 at 07:26 AM.
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  3. #78
    Hall of Fame Member Goughy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by vic_orthdox View Post
    To be fair, Watson's taken full responsibility for making a "soft call" that couldn't be heard properly.
    Schoolboy stuff though, no? It wasnt Watsons call to make.
    If I only just posted the above post, please wait 5 mins before replying as there is bound to be edits

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  4. #79
    Hall of Fame Member Marcuss's Avatar
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    Watson on strike, hits it to midwicket and it's not his call?


  5. #80
    Global Moderator vic_orthdox's Avatar
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    These days, at least in Australian cricket, it's generally recognised that it's always the batsman's call, unless he doesn't know where the ball is.

    Has a better view of the angles square of the wicket, knows how well or otherwise he hit the ball, and stops confusion when a ball is just behind square.

  6. #81
    Hall of Fame Member Goughy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marcuss View Post
    Watson on strike, hits it to midwicket and it's not his call?
    No, of course not. The ball goes just in front of square to a right handed fielder that would have to throw across his body to the more distant stumps against his momentum to target the bowlers end.

    Clearly Katich is going to the danger end and clearly his shout. Schoolboy stuff. I question the standard of schoolboy coaching if this is being discussed (Im not trying to be a dick while making my point, Im just still pumped after finishing the Day 5 highlights )

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    Last edited by Goughy; 07-12-2010 at 07:39 AM.

  7. #82
    Hall of Fame Member Goughy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by vic_orthdox View Post
    These days, at least in Australian cricket, it's generally recognised that it's always the batsman's call, unless he doesn't know where the ball is.

    Has a better view of the angles square of the wicket, knows how well or otherwise he hit the ball, and stops confusion when a ball is just behind square.
    Really? Thats horrible. Why should the batsman have contol of his partners wicket when he is heading to the safe end? I do not agree with that at all.

    EDIT- I can see the logic in limited over cricket, even if Im not a huge fan of it. Hit, call, run and put the fielders under pressure but not in Test cricket where the risks are not worth it and each individual has greater accountabilty for their wicket. In Test cricket, the guy going to the danger end should call.
    Last edited by Goughy; 07-12-2010 at 07:38 AM.

  8. #83
    Global Moderator vic_orthdox's Avatar
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    a) The call can come earlier from the batsman himself.
    b) The batsman on strike has more information to make the call.
    c) Lessens confusion, in working out when it is the striker/non-striker's call.

    I agree with you on most things with coaching, but looks like we'll have to sit on opposite sides of the fence for this one.

  9. #84
    Hall of Fame Member Furball's Avatar
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    I was always taught (mind you, this was 15 years ago playing West of Scotland U10 league) that it's the striker's call if the ball goes in front of square, and the non-striker's call for anything behind square.

  10. #85
    Global Moderator vic_orthdox's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GingerFurball View Post
    I was always taught (mind you, this was 15 years ago playing West of Scotland U10 league) that it's the striker's call if the ball goes in front of square, and the non-striker's call for anything behind square.
    That was the sort of basic thing that is taught to all juniors, who really have little idea about how to judge a run, particularly if it's not hit through the field. But when you reach pathway levels of cricket, and involvement in regional programs, the theory changes.

  11. #86
    Hall of Fame Member Furball's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by vic_orthdox View Post
    That was the sort of basic thing that is taught to all juniors, who really have little idea about how to judge a run, particularly if it's not hit through the field. But when you reach pathway levels of cricket, and involvement in regional programs, the theory changes.
    I'd have thought the "in front of square is the striker's call" would remain more or less the same though, surely if I hit the ball to midwicket or cover then I've got a much better look at the angle and whether a fielder is likely to intercept than the guy at the non-strikers end?

  12. #87
    Hall of Fame Member Goughy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by vic_orthdox View Post
    a) The call can come earlier from the batsman himself.
    b) The batsman on strike has more information to make the call.
    c) Lessens confusion, in working out when it is the striker/non-striker's call.

    I agree with you on most things with coaching, but looks like we'll have to sit on opposite sides of the fence for this one.
    If the striker is going to the safe end and calls immediately and sets off and then the non-striker who is going to the danger end answers 'no' then the striker is halfway down the track stranded.

    Ill be buggered if Id ever risk running myself out or have a player I coach do the same just because someone happened to hit the ball. If Im going to the danger end then Ill trust myself or my charges to make that decision for themselves rather than the guy who is at no risk.

    Running is about communication and decision making not just blind obedience.

    I also find it a dubious concept. Rather than each batsman individually assessing their own risk that one player can immediately make a more accurate assessment of the risk for all involved especially when their wicket is also on the line and they are going away from danger. I dont believe that type of assessment is as accurate as the one in most danger makes the decision. IMO, human nature makes the striker always calling prone to more failures.

    If I am Katich then and I am going to the danger end and I dont think there is a run then I shout 'no' and turn my back on Watson. Ill be ****ed if someone is trying to run me out when they are in no danger themselves.

    I guess we are on opposite sides of the fence on this and to be fair not even Geoff Boycott's mum could change my mind on this.

    As for lessening confusion, sports is about decision making. Things should not be simplified for elite athletes. Otherwise just go back to what GingerFurball said was coached at the U'10 level in Scotland.
    Last edited by Goughy; 07-12-2010 at 08:11 AM.

  13. #88
    Hall of Fame Member Marcuss's Avatar
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    Tbf I thought it went further infront of square than that.
    The fact Trott had so much time due to the fact Katich was sat on his heels for 6 minutes means that the liability isn't solely with Watson IMO

  14. #89
    Hall of Fame Member Furball's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Goughy View Post
    If the striker is going to the safe end and calls immediately and sets off and then the non-striker who is going to the danger end answers 'no' then the striker is halfway down the track stranded.

    Ill be buggered if Id ever risk running myself out or have a player I coach just because someone happened to hit the ball. If Im going to the danger end then Ill trust myself or my charges to make that decision for themselves rather than the guy who is at no risk.

    Running is about communication and decision making not just blind obedience.

    If I am Katich then and I am going to the danger end and I dont think there is a run then I shout 'no' and turn my back on Watson. Ill be ****ed if someone is trying to run me out when they are in no danger themselves.

    I guess we are on opposite sides of the fence on this and to be fair not even Geoff Boycott's mum could change my mind on this.
    That's the thing though, Katich didn't make any attempt at communicating with Watson - he was ballwatching. While Watson has apparently admitted his call wasn't loud enough, Katich should have responded to Watson running - and it wasn't even a tight single. Watson made the single easily by lightly jogging it. If Katich had gone early and gone hard, there would have been no need for Trott to have a shy, the run would have been completed by the time he got the ball in his hands.

  15. #90
    Hall of Fame Member Goughy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GingerFurball View Post
    That's the thing though, Katich didn't make any attempt at communicating with Watson - he was ballwatching. While Watson has apparently admitted his call wasn't loud enough, Katich should have responded to Watson running - and it wasn't even a tight single. Watson made the single easily by lightly jogging it. If Katich had gone early and gone hard, there would have been no need for Trott to have a shy, the run would have been completed by the time he got the ball in his hands.
    He was not ball watching, he was assessing risk and waiting to make a call. As the man going to the danger end that is what, IMO, he should do unless in the middle of a frantic run chase. Just because his partner is madly sprinting down the pitch has nothing to do with it. Watson may have made the single easy but he was never in any danger as he was running to the safe end.

    If Watson waits for Katich's call of 'no' then a dot ball and no drama.
    Last edited by Goughy; 07-12-2010 at 08:12 AM.

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