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Thread: *Official* Second Test at the Adelaide Oval

  1. #166
    International Coach social's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Prince EWS View Post


    I rate extremely low on the Clapo scale of Johnson Worship - I was one of his biggest detractors early in his Test career and maintained for quite a while that he had just been outrageously lucky. He never, to me, appears to be bowling particularly well. Even given all that though I still agree - he's proven, particularly in Australian conditions, that he can consistently take pretty cheap wickets and break key partnerships. At this stage I'd probably pick him for Adelaide (no Hilfenhaus), although if it came down to a straight choice between him and Dougey (I rate an 8.5 on a scale of 1 to Julian87) I'd take Dougey.

    My main concern is that England have really done their homework on him. It's always appeared extremely obvious to me that if you look to leave the majority of Johnson's bowling as a right hander you can just wait for the leg stump trash, but after watching quality batsmen fish outside off against him for years, I just came to the conclusion that it wasn't that simple against express left arm over bowling. If Flower and Strauss have worked this out and developed a method to leave him successfully, it's possible he's been Iversoned. I think he's worth at least one more Test to bounce back though, given his track record.
    Johnson and Hilf should both be gone IMO

    Hilf is not a wicket taker (he is simply too one-dimensional) but more importantly, he simply isnt as good a bowler as either Harris or Dougeh

    I'd play Johnson if it were Perth but we simply cant afford a complete passenger at Adelaide

  2. #167
    Hall of Fame Member Marcuss's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spark View Post
    Johnson is a confidence cricketer. And he has none right now.
    Dropping him helps how? Surely saying "Forget about the last Test, you're our best bowler" is the biggest vote of confidence you could give him right now?

  3. #168
    Global Moderator Spark's Avatar
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    Well I don't think it would help him obviously, but it may help us. I don't know. If he gets one more test it must surely be his last shot.
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  4. #169
    Global Moderator Prince EWS's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marcuss View Post
    Dropping him helps how?
    Gets him out of the team.

    Not that I actually would drop Johnson, but it's not always about player management. If he's less likely to perform well in Adelaide or going forward in the rest of the series than Harris, then he shouldn't play. Dropping him wouldn't be about helping him - or not should it be - it'd be about helping the team. I don't think it would help the team, personally, but if it would then he shouldn't be selected again anyway just because it wouldn't help him.
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  5. #170
    Hall of Fame Member Marcuss's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Prince EWS View Post
    Gets him out of the team.

    Not that I actually would drop Johnson, but it's not always about player management. If he's less likely to perform well in Adelaide or going forward in the rest of the series than Harris, then he shouldn't play. Dropping him wouldn't be about helping him - or not should it be - it'd be about helping the team. I don't think it would help the team, personally, but if it would then he shouldn't be selected again anyway just because it wouldn't help him.
    I was strictly speaking about how it helps Johnson and not the team. If confidence is so integral to him and you drop him now, you might as well say goodbye to his career.
    If you reckon he's still got it in him to be a top bowler, and he hasn't been figured out, then stick with him for at least one more Test IMO. Yeah he's been out of form, yeah he had an absolutely horrific Test but none of your bowlers did particularly well besides Siddle in the 1st innings.
    Hilfenhaus should be the first one on chopping block and then Doherty IMHO.

  6. #171
    Global Moderator Prince EWS's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marcuss View Post
    I was strictly speaking about how it helps Johnson and not the team. If confidence is so integral to him and you drop him now, you might as well say goodbye to his career.
    Yeah, I don't think people necessarily mind that though.
    You shouldn't retain a player for a longer period just because you think he's a soft cock and would never recover. He probably shouldn't be in the team to begin with if he's that temperamental. If he's not the best option in the short to medium term, then shouldn't play. I think he is, but if people disagree, they shouldn't retain him based on the fact that it'd help him. Australia actually do have a bit of untapped fast bowling depth; there's no need to bend over backwards for Johnson if people don't think he's the right option at the moment.

  7. #172
    Cricket Web: All-Time Legend Uppercut's Avatar
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    I'd drop Johnson for sure. It's a joke that you can have someone in the team bowling that badly when two out of Bollinger, Harris and Hilfenhaus are sitting it out. If you're worried about lower-order batting taking a hit, compromise with the quality of spinner you play.
    Quote Originally Posted by zaremba View Post
    The Filth have comfortably the better bowling. But the Gash have the batting. Might be quite good to watch.

  8. #173
    Global Moderator Prince EWS's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Uppercut View Post
    I'd drop Johnson for sure. It's a joke that you can have someone in the team bowling that badly when two out of Bollinger, Harris and Hilfenhaus are sitting it out. If you're worried about lower-order batting taking a hit, compromise with the quality of spinner you play.
    Haha, O'Keefe's a better spinner than Doherty anyway. I promise.

  9. #174
    Hall of Fame Member Marcuss's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Uppercut View Post
    I'd drop Johnson for sure. It's a joke that you can have someone in the team bowling that badly when two out of Bollinger, Harris and Hilfenhaus are sitting it out. If you're worried about lower-order batting taking a hit, compromise with the quality of spinner you play.
    Hilfenhaus is hardly a vastly superior option to Johnson for this series. If it were in England, sure. But it's not and he isn't.

  10. #175
    Cricket Web: All-Time Legend Uppercut's Avatar
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    Nah. Midge bowls pies. Hilfeh bowls 7/10 and isn't inexplicably scared of the new ball.

  11. #176
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    Quote Originally Posted by Uppercut View Post
    I'd drop Johnson for sure. It's a joke that you can have someone in the team bowling that badly when two out of Bollinger, Harris and Hilfenhaus are sitting it out. If you're worried about lower-order batting taking a hit, compromise with the quality of spinner you play.


    Both O'keefe and Hauritz are better batsmen than Doherty and at least as good bowlers

    Also, Johnson has been a walking wicket in tests for ages so I'm not even sure that his batting should come into it

    If I had my way, Smith would replace North (no better place to blood a young bat than Adelaide), O'Keefe for Doherty, Harris For Johnson and Bolly for Hilf

    However, the best we can hope for is one change IMO

  12. #177
    Hall of Fame Member Marcuss's Avatar
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    Hilf looks like he bowls 7/10

  13. #178
    Eternal Optimist / Cricket Web Staff Member GIMH's Avatar
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    I say Australia give Johnson the series to sort his issues out.
    Phillip Hughes 1988-2014

    RIP Craigos. A true CW legend. You will be missed.

  14. #179
    State Captain Sylvester's Avatar
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    From that squad I'd pick a bowling lineup of
    Harris
    Doherty
    Siddle
    Bollinger

    Don't see the need for 4 seamers, if we went down that road Hilfy would be the way to go but he hasn't been taking enough wickets for my liking. In Bollinger and Harris we have the more steady and wicket taking bowlers we need and Siddle can then be the strike bowler without worrying about Johnson going at 4 an over at the other end.

  15. #180
    Hall of Fame Member Howe_zat's Avatar
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    In unrelated news, I found this.





    ....

    CANNOT UN-SEE
    "Your averages, captain, coaches and players can probably survive incompetence over a relatively short series, so if youíre going to be rubbish, make sure itís against Pakistan, Sri Lanka, New Zealand or someone."



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