Ashes HQ - Page 5

Burgey · 12-12-2010, 11:01 PM

You should have a go anyway Dixon. Don't be shy.

Can so tell this bloke is an Uppercut duplicate

GingerFurball · 14-12-2010, 09:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Woodster

Makes you realise the bonus of having a player such as Flintoff that gives a side much greater balance. Don't think we've a good enough player to enable us to play a five-man attack without appreciably weakening our batting in theory. I don't think we should play a five-man attack in Perth but I can certainly recognise the advantages of having such bowling options at our disposal.

Nah, for the most part Flintoff unbalanced the side IMO.

Woodster · 14-12-2010, 11:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GingerFurball

Nah, for the most part Flintoff unbalanced the side IMO.

No idea how you reach such a conclusion but I'm willing to listen if you wish to divulge ?

GIMH · 14-12-2010, 12:58 PM

I guess because he weakened the batting

Woodster · 14-12-2010, 01:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GeraintIsMyHero

I guess because he weakened the batting

Not a bad player to have coming in at seven though, had they batted him there. I agree his batting may have been overrated at times, but I don't think he significantly weakened the batting and what he offered with the ball was immense. Well, let's look at our options now, that should give us some perspective on what Freddie gave us.

vcs · 14-12-2010, 08:05 PM

At his peak (2003-2006) Flintoff would have improved any side in the world. Outside that period, he unbalanced the team.

vic_orthdox · 14-12-2010, 09:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by vcs

At his peak (2003-2006) Flintoff would have improved any side in the world. Outside that period, he unbalanced the team.

Yeah, agree with this. Now, he'd slot in well at 7 and force Prior to bat at 6, and its a toss-up as to whether it's a better side or not. But at the time, England had a series of guys who would do well to average 28+ keeping for them.

Woodster · 15-12-2010, 04:23 PM

Flintoff's bowling is obviously not in question, so he would have played solely as a bowler. The fact he had such ability with the bat, even though he never made the most of it for one reason or another, meant he gave us a five bowler option. We would most probably have struggled to bowl out teams with the four bowlers we were likely to select.

Surely any batsman (or bowler) that has a poor run of form is unbalancing the side. Flintoff always delivered in one discipline, I don't buy into him unbalancing the side in any way.

andyc · 15-12-2010, 07:14 PM

When you're playing him as one member of a three man pace attack though, you're really relying on him bowling a lot of overs and not breaking down. Reckon that if he didn't have those four other bowlers in the team with him, his career would've been shortened even more.

marc71178 · 16-12-2010, 01:02 AM

Yeah, but I think that by including him it took pressure off the likes of Broad (and even Jimmeh to a degree), enabling them to settle into Test Cricket to the extent that they're now Test-class bowlers, no matter what some people will try to say to the contrary.

Uppercut · 16-12-2010, 05:18 AM

It's the 'Flintoff Dilemma'- you can't pick him as part of a four-man attack because he's not fit enough, you can't pick him as part of a five-man attack because his batting isn't up to it and you can't leave him out because he's too damn good.

Spark · 16-12-2010, 05:33 AM

I reckon England not having a test-standard #7 for a long time did more to unbalance the side than Flintoff tbh.

andyc · 18-12-2010, 04:35 AM

Yeah, if they had Prior playing as he has been recently, plus Broad and Swann, it'd be a much more balanced side, with something like

6. Flintoff
7. Prior
8. Broad
9. Swann
10. Anderson
11. Finn/Tremlett/etc.

Obviously having two more than capable tailenders in Broad and Swann, and Anderson who can hang around for a bit, means that Flintoff at 6 isn't suddenly the liability that it could be.

morgieb · 18-12-2010, 06:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by andyc

Yeah, if they had Prior playing as he has been recently, plus Broad and Swann, it'd be a much more balanced side, with something like

6. Flintoff
7. Prior
8. Broad
9. Swann
10. Anderson
11. Finn/Tremlett/etc.

Obviously having two more than capable tailenders in Broad and Swann, and Anderson who can hang around for a bit, means that Flintoff at 6 isn't suddenly the liability that it could be.

Yeah good call. Would probably play Flintoff @ 7 in that lineup though.

James · 19-12-2010, 09:31 PM

The Johnson Enigma

by Cameron Burge

What transforms a player in three short weeks from a caricature of himself to a human wrecking ball?

12-12-2010, 11:01 PM	#61 (permalink)
Burgey Cricket Web Staff Member Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: The Castle Posts: 35,138	You should have a go anyway Dixon. Don't be shy. Can so tell this bloke is an Uppercut duplicate __________________ WWCC - Loyaulte Mi Lie "People make me happy.. not places.. people" "When a man is tired of London, he is tired of life." - Samuel Johnson "Oh my God, there's a castle! A castle!"

14-12-2010, 12:58 PM	#64 (permalink)
GIMH Eternal Optimist Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Shake my tree where's the apple for me? Posts: 43,617	I guess because he weakened the batting __________________ Watch out, for as soon as it pleases them they’ll send you out to protect their gold in wars whose weapons, rapidly developed by servile scientists, will become more and more deadly until they can with a flick of the finger tear a million of you to pieces RIP Craigos. A true CW legend. You will be missed.

16-12-2010, 01:02 AM	#70 (permalink)
marc71178 Eyes not spreadsheets Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: England Posts: 56,346	Yeah, but I think that by including him it took pressure off the likes of Broad (and even Jimmeh to a degree), enabling them to settle into Test Cricket to the extent that they're now Test-class bowlers, no matter what some people will try to say to the contrary. __________________ marc71178 - President and founding member of AAAS - we don't only appreciate when he does well, but also when he's not quite so good! Anyone want to join the Society? Beware the evils of Kit-Kats - they're immoral apparently.

18-12-2010, 04:35 AM	#73 (permalink)
andyc Cricket Web: All-Time Legend Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Canberra Posts: 23,218	Yeah, if they had Prior playing as he has been recently, plus Broad and Swann, it'd be a much more balanced side, with something like 6. Flintoff 7. Prior 8. Broad 9. Swann 10. Anderson 11. Finn/Tremlett/etc. Obviously having two more than capable tailenders in Broad and Swann, and Anderson who can hang around for a bit, means that Flintoff at 6 isn't suddenly the liability that it could be. Last edited by andyc; 18-12-2010 at 04:36 AM.

19-12-2010, 09:31 PM	#75 (permalink)
James Cricket Web Owner Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Sydney, Australia Posts: 22,295	The Johnson Enigma by Cameron Burge What transforms a player in three short weeks from a caricature of himself to a human wrecking ball? __________________ Follow Cricket Web on Facebook Follow Cricket Web on Twitter Email - james.nixon@cricketweb.net Moderators - moderators@cricketweb.net (will go to all moderators) Skype - nixonja@hotmail.com Google Talk/Facebook - cricketweb@gmail.com

14-12-2010, 08:05 PM	#66 (permalink)
vcs International Coach Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: India Posts: 10,305	At his peak (2003-2006) Flintoff would have improved any side in the world. Outside that period, he unbalanced the team.

15-12-2010, 04:23 PM	#68 (permalink)
Woodster Cricket Web Staff Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Manchester, England Posts: 5,153	Flintoff's bowling is obviously not in question, so he would have played solely as a bowler. The fact he had such ability with the bat, even though he never made the most of it for one reason or another, meant he gave us a five bowler option. We would most probably have struggled to bowl out teams with the four bowlers we were likely to select. Surely any batsman (or bowler) that has a poor run of form is unbalancing the side. Flintoff always delivered in one discipline, I don't buy into him unbalancing the side in any way.

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