Who's gonna win?

[GIMH]

Originally Posted by pup11

First thing first, England don't tour much, and whenever they do, they don't perform that well.
The South African tour wasn't a horrible one, but it was hardly a success, and if Poms put up a similar show in Oz, they won't have a certain Mr.Onions to save 'em!!

Originally Posted by pup11

You guys would have lost 3-1, had it not been for Onions heroics with the bat, he isn't around this time, and from the looks of it, Panesar too won't be in the XI for repeat of Cardiff.

1. We play two away series every winter aside from Ashes years, in addition to any extra T20/ODI series
2. South Africa was a success as we drew the series and won one test by an innings. A year earlier we'd have been tonked there
3. Onions batted out a few overs, yes. Paul Collingwood and Ian Bell had nothing to do with either draw, of course
4. Ifs and buts, who gives a ****?

Just pure nonsense from you in the last few days. Get a clue what you're talking about please.

[flibbertyjibber]

Originally Posted by Spark

'course not. But as I said, you can't rely on it on a regular basis.

Sign of a good side though is one who can save games that look lost and one that finishes off games they are on top in.At present we have the knack of doing both.Do the Aussies?

[Howe_zat]

Originally Posted by flibbertyjibber

Sign of a good side though is one who can save games that look lost and one that finishes off games they are on top in.At present we have the knack of doing both.Do the Aussies?

For the former, Mohali and Melbourne say nay.

[pup11]

Originally Posted by GeraintIsMyHero

1. We play two away series every winter aside from Ashes years, in addition to any extra T20/ODI series
2. South Africa was a success as we drew the series and won one test by an innings. A year earlier we'd have been tonked there
3. Onions batted out a few overs, yes. Paul Collingwood and Ian Bell had nothing to do with either draw, of course
4. Ifs and buts, who gives a ****?

Just pure nonsense from you in the last few days. Get a clue what you're talking about please.

Haha, ok gotta admit for some reason, felt that England has not been on many test tours in recent times, so I retract that statement of mine...
Though... they have been poor away from home, that's one fact that there is no shying away from...
As for you calling the South African tour a success, don't know how you can term a tour as a successful one(past performances notwithstanding,) where despite your team having thumped the Proteas to an innings defeat in the 1st test, then went onto squander that advantage as the series progressed.

[Themer]

Originally Posted by pup11

As for you calling the South African tour a success, don't know how you can term a tour as a successful one(past performances notwithstanding,) where despite your team having thumped the Proteas to an innings defeat in the 1st test, then went onto squander that advantage as the series progressed.

I'd call drawing a test series against possibly the best Test team in the world as being a success. I'd of taken a 1-0 defeat before the series had started let alone a 1-1 scoreline come the end of the tour. And we won them in the ODIs 2-1.

Hell of a successful tour all together tbh.

[pup11]

Originally Posted by Themer

I'd call drawing a test series against possibly the best Test team in the world as being a success. I'd of taken a 1-0 defeat before the series had started let alone a 1-1 scoreline come the end of the tour. And we won them in the ODIs 2-1.

Hell of a successful tour all together tbh.

Beating Saffas in their own backyard is tough, but it ain't no impossible feat or something. Teams like India, Pakistan, West Indies, Australia and England all have won test matches against the Proteas at home in recent times, and that too pretty comprehensively.
Don't know how you can rate South Africans as the best test team in the world, when they aren't impregnable even when playing at home.

[GIMH]

We didn't win the first Test

Obviously it would have been nice to win having gone into the final game one up...but when Onions survived the last ball in the third test, I, and all England fans, were delighted because it meant we would not lose the series, which, yes, is a success given that they had beaten us at home the year before.

I suppose it won't be a success if we draw this series either. After all, SA are a better side than the filth...

[Howe_zat]

Originally Posted by pup11

Beating Saffas in their own backyard is tough, but it ain't no impossible feat or something. Teams like India, Pakistan, West Indies, Australia and England all have won test matches against the Proteas at home in recent times, and that too pretty comprehensively.
Don't know how you can rate South Africans as the best test team in the world, when they aren't impregnable even when playing at home.

No one said it was an impossible task. But to come away with a win, and not lose the series, is a significant achievement.

South Africa were #1 in the world when they started the tour, Australia having slipped down to #4 when they lost the Ashes and India having not yet gained the top spot (granted, it didn't last long).

So to draw the series, including an innings win, against a better side away from home, coupled with an ODI series victory makes a successful if not perfect tour.

[morgieb]

Still believe that England's a fairly mediocre side that had a couple of golden patches. They haven't lost a series in nearly 2 years, tho.

[Spark]

Originally Posted by flibbertyjibber

Sign of a good side though is one who can save games that look lost and one that finishes off games they are on top in.At present we have the knack of doing both.Do the Aussies?

That's a good point, and that's why you're #4 and we're #5 despite us having, I believe, a stronger team on paper even with two-and-a-half deadweights.

[Howe_zat]

Originally Posted by morgieb

Still believe that England's a fairly mediocre side that had a couple of golden patches. They haven't lost a series in nearly 2 years, tho.

The fact that the last series they lost was the series that changed the coach & captain and make significant long-term selection calls suggests that the new, successful England is more than just a purple patch.

I still think it'll be very difficult for them to win down under - and a drawn series to retain the urn would be good. But they are just as good as Australia now, and have the best chance they've had since I've been alive.

[Prince EWS]

Originally Posted by morgieb

Still believe that England's a fairly mediocre side that had a couple of golden patches. They haven't lost a series in nearly 2 years, tho.

I think they're a pretty good side that has had patches of underachievement, myself. I still don't think they'll be particularly well-suited to Australian conditions but that's no huge slight on them. The top five teams honestly are fairly interchangeable IMO and unless we see personnel changes in those five teams, series between them will largely come down to HGA and form.

[vcs]

Originally Posted by Howe_zat

The fact that the last series they lost was the series that changed the coach & captain and make significant long-term selection calls suggests that the new, successful England is more than just a purple patch.

I still think it'll be very difficult for them to win down under - and a drawn series to retain the urn would be good. But they are just as good as Australia now, and have the best chance they've had since I've been alive.

Weren't the changes made after the tour to India and before the one to WI, which they lost?

[Howe_zat]

Originally Posted by vcs

Weren't the changes made after the tour to India and before the one to WI, which they lost?

Ah yes, true. Though the general point I was making is that all these things happened around the same time.

[GIMH]

Originally Posted by vcs

Weren't the changes made after the tour to India and before the one to WI, which they lost?

All the furore came about a fortnight before we left for the WI. Flower and Strauss were both placed in interim roles for that series.

They were given the jobs permanently afterwards and haven't lost a Test series since.

Basically you're right, kind of!