*Official* First Test at the Gabba

[Ruckus]

Originally Posted by zaremba

Is there any point in picking 5 seamers including Watson? I'd have thought that if it's a seamer's paradise, you'd be ok with 4 including Watson, and pick another batsman (or spinning all-rounder) and if it's flat or a turner you'd want Hauritz or, again, a spinning all-rounder. Either way, I doubt that adding a 5th quick would add that much to the team, and it would certainly look unbalanced.

Yeh but Watson isn't one of the main bowlers. He is usually just used as a partnership breaker, which is the way it should stay imo. Watson shouldn't be used too much as a main bowler, because he should have most of his focus on batting (which is more important to Aus right now) and could get injuries again if he is overused.

If a spinner was picked instead of a 4th fast bowler, I think it should be Smith. Even though he isn't as 'good' as Hauritz, his batting would be very useful. I don't think the Gabba will require a spearhead spinner, so the fact that Smith isn't that good shouldn't even matter. Most of the wickets should come from the fast bowlers anyway.

So my preference would be 4 fast bowlers (not including Watson), followed by 3 fast bowlers and Smith.

[Spark]

Originally Posted by sifter132

You know who should move up? Marcus North. Here's why...

*He bat's at 4 for WA
*He's a 'boom or bust' batsman. You don't want a guy like that coming in at #6 IMO. You want him coming in earlier because if he does fail then you've got 2 proper batsmen in to halt any collapse, and your #6 to come. Batting him at #6, means the keeper has to halt any potential collapses and if it's due to a good spell of bowling he may not be able to resist with his inferior technique.

Agreed, actually.

*And thinking more positively, North is the most likely of Clarke/Hussey/North to score a big hundred right now. So get him in there first. Clarke might be just as likely to score a ton, but Clarke rarely scores big centuries.

Last two tons have been 150+ tbh.

*It would let him partner Clarke more often, and that might give the Poms some bad memories of 2009.

It is quite ridiculous how reliant he is on Clarke. Amazed that he managed to score a century without him at the other end for a good part of his innings.

*It would be a good confidence booster for him if Ricky comes and says, hey Marcus you're in at 4.

Perhaps, yes.

Hussey needs at LEAST 2 50+ scores in the next 2 weeks to keep his spot in my mind. He's a broken man at present, badly needs some runs. And I have Ferguson just shading Usman at present if Hussey can't find some confidence. Main reasons being that Ferguson's been with the Aussie setup a bit longer than Usman, he'd be a more natural #6 I think and he's a right hander which will annoy Swann.

He also averages below 40 in FC cricket. Sorry, but left-hander or not, Usman's gotta be in front.

[Ruckus]

Originally Posted by Spark

He also averages below 40 in FC cricket. Sorry, but left-hander or not, Usman's gotta be in front.

Yeh exactly. But I think the worse thing about selecting Ferguson would be that if he happens to perform well, he will probably be retained in the team for a long time (like Marcus North). And I don't see Ferguson ever averaging much more than 40. Where as someone like Khawaja probably has a lot more potential in the long term.

[Oscillatingmind]

If Ferguson tons up against England in the tour match then I'd suggest he'd be ahead, but I just don't accept the idea that he is ahead of Khawaja at the moment in the selectors eyes. But who knows there all bat**** crazy.

[Matt79]

Originally Posted by DeusEx

I reckon they should go for a 4 pace attack. I think, given the circumstances, the best team would be:

Watson
Katich (if he can't play, Hughes)
Ponting
Clarke
Khawaja
North
Haddin
Johnson
Hilfenhaus
***
Bollinger

***Not sure about who would make the 4th pace bowler. There are so many potential options so its a pretty difficult choice to make. Harris was impressive before, and Siddle looks in very good form as well. Then there are the new guys like George (who I frankly wasn't that impressed with) and Hazlewood (don't know if he'll be fit, plus I wasn't that impressed with him either in the ODI). But then you've also got other domestic players like Copeland and Cameron who look mightily impressive. I'd almost be inclined to pick one of the latter, just as an x-factor for the English, who would know nothing much of their style. Also, if they got smashed around, then there are always the three more experienced guys to rely on, plus Shane Watson if needed.

Don't get the logic of dropping Hauritz for a fourth quick when as you've acknowledged here, there isn't really anyone who's demanding selection. George and Hazelwood are unproven rookies. Harris is injured/coming back from injury, and given the difference between him fully fit and only thereabouts, you'd want to see that he's recovered properly. Siddle is really the only one, and I don't know whether he's going to be any better than Hauritz in general. Whichever fourth specialist quick you bring in is going to be the fifth best quick in the team, after the current three and Watson, so what do we think they'll do that four better quicks won't get done? This isn't India that's about to land, and some of the Poms definitely don't know what they're doing with spin.

Also disagree with TumTum that the Gabba is a seamer's paradise which offers nothing for spin. For a long time, its test tracks have been some of the best pitches in Australia to bowl spin on - if Haury is going to do much, it will be here.

Also disagree with the idea that we drop him here because the conditions don't suit - presumably with the rider that we recall him for Adelaide and Sydney when we think we do need a spinner. He's definitely a guy who's bowled his best when he's felt confident in his place and in what his captain wants from him - yoyo-ing in and out will destroy him IMO. And then we're playing Jason Krejza when we think we need some spin.

[Blog it for six]

If come 25th November, the Gabba has a similar green top as it does now and the side winning the toss bats first (as would be expected), then the first test may become the battle of the middle orders. Early swing from the Kookaburra may well claim 2 wickets in the first 25 overs and expose the vulnerable middle order batters of either side.

For England that would be KP, Colly and probably Bell - who still has no shortage of doubters.

Australia look shaky here too though; Clarke (Averaged around 8 against India in tests) and Hussey & North who are both on thin ice.

I reckon that looking at the middle orders, England have the advantage here. Having said that, I wouldn't bet on Strauss following Nasser from years ago by taking the risk of bowling first in an attempt to expose this Aus weakness and draw first blood.

[TumTum]

Originally Posted by Matt79

Also disagree with TumTum that the Gabba is a seamer's paradise which offers nothing for spin. For a long time, its test tracks have been some of the best pitches in Australia to bowl spin on - if Haury is going to do much, it will be here.

Well I didn't say it offers nothing for spin Just saying that compared to the last Ashes series, this track will offer seamer's great advantage. Spinners might get some purchase to but it will be minimal compared to the movement the seamer's will get.

[Prince EWS]

Originally Posted by sifter132

You know who should move up? Marcus North. Here's why...

*He bat's at 4 for WA
*He's a 'boom or bust' batsman. You don't want a guy like that coming in at #6 IMO. You want him coming in earlier because if he does fail then you've got 2 proper batsmen in to halt any collapse, and your #6 to come. Batting him at #6, means the keeper has to halt any potential collapses and if it's due to a good spell of bowling he may not be able to resist with his inferior technique.
*And thinking more positively, North is the most likely of Clarke/Hussey/North to score a big hundred right now. So get him in there first. Clarke might be just as likely to score a ton, but Clarke rarely scores big centuries.
*It would let him partner Clarke more often, and that might give the Poms some bad memories of 2009.
*It would be a good confidence booster for him if Ricky comes and says, hey Marcus you're in at 4.
*It fits well with the other 2 guys as well, since we know Clarke is a good #5, and if Hussey is retained he's potentially a very good #6 too. He bats there in ODIs and even in Test cricket many of his better knocks have come with the lower order.

So my middle order for Brisbane would be:
4 North
5 Clarke
6 Hussey/Ferguson/Usman

Hussey needs at LEAST 2 50+ scores in the next 2 weeks to keep his spot in my mind. He's a broken man at present, badly needs some runs. And I have Ferguson just shading Usman at present if Hussey can't find some confidence. Main reasons being that Ferguson's been with the Aussie setup a bit longer than Usman, he'd be a more natural #6 I think and he's a right hander which will annoy Swann.

Interesting idea.

[howardj]

Originally Posted by TumTum

Gabba will be a seamer's paradise.

That's what people always say, but the Test wicket up here is just a good cricket wicket. It must also be distinguished from the Shield wickets up here which are absolute greentops. By contrast, the Test pitch does a little bit in the first session, flattens out for the next few days and then takes turn later on. All in all, a magnificent strip - consistently one of the best in the world.

[TumTum]

Originally Posted by howardj

That's what people always say, but the Test wicket up here is just a good cricket wicket. It must also be distinguished from the Shield wickets up here which are absolute greentops. By contrast, the Test pitch does a little bit in the first session, flattens out for the next few days and then takes turn later on. All in all, a magnificent strip - consistently one of the best in the world.

Yea that's what it was like last Ashes, but I have a feeling this time it will be different. Remember last year the SCG pitch?

[TumTum]

I will also add that this season has been Australia's wettest since like ... ever.

- Last year CA has asked all curators to start leaving more grass on the pitches
- One of Australia's wettest season in history
- Recent Domestic results at this ground
- Curator has said that if there is any moisture left in the pitch before the Test starts, grass will grow quickly underneath.

Adding all these together, I think the expectations is pretty clear.

[Athlai]

I actually do prefer the idea of North at 4 and Clarke 5.

Watto
Katich/Hughes
Ponting
North
Clarke
Hussey/Ferguson
Haddin
Johnson
Hauritz
Hilfenhaus
Bollinger

Would be my team

[Prince EWS]

Stop picking Ferguson ****s.

[Flem274*]

Originally Posted by Prince EWS

Stop picking Ferguson ****s.

awta.

White ftw.

[Athlai]

Originally Posted by Prince EWS

Stop picking Ferguson ****s.

Usman isn't playing the first Test but Ferguson has gunned it in ODIs.

Thats right you're going to start picking Test players on ODI form! Hahahahaha Australia has become New Zealand.