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Thread: *Official* First Test at the Gabba

  1. #346
    Global Moderator Prince EWS's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sylvester View Post
    Selectors love picking on potential and ODI form. Clarke is the prime example and he had a pretty similar record to Ferguson before he was picked for his Test debut.
    Clarke before his debut
    28.78
    25.57
    39
    47.82
    27.5 (Aus A in WI)
    60.75
    35.45 (England)

    Callum Ferguson to date
    38.57
    36.14
    24.92
    33.2
    42.93
    28
    87.5 (This season 2 matches)

    Essentially very similar stats, can't remember what Clarke's average was before he was picked but can't be too much better than Ferguson. The big difference as mentioned is Ferguson having the flat Adelaide oval as his home while Clarke has the more trickier SCG.
    Clarke also put two good Shield seasons together, maintained those ODI performances for a longer period, hadn't just come off a year-long injury and, most importantly, was actually a bit of a flop in his first stint at Test cricket anyway. He scored that debut ton and then completely faded away to a point where he was dropped - he only became the batsman he is after going back and piling on the runs for New South Wales.
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  2. #347
    International Debutant iamdavid's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Top_Cat View Post
    Difference is Clarke was picked after his first 2 seasons. WIth Ferg, there's 10 years of evidence which suggests he probably won't get much better so wouldn't be a pick on potential. Lots more room for development in early Clarke than Ferg now, who isn't doing enough to be picked on performance so he's no banker either.
    Exactly. Plus due to the strength of the NSW batting lineup at the time, Clarke didn't have full campaigns for his first couple of years, he frequently had to make way when the Waugh's, Bevan, etc came back from international duty. Once he actually established himself in their first choice side his numbers were alot better.

    Whereas Ferguson has been an established first choice player for SA since 2005, only threat to his place is his own form, and still he hasn't produced the numbers with any degree of consistency.

  3. #348
    State Captain Sylvester's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Top_Cat View Post
    Difference is Clarke was picked after his first 2 seasons. WIth Ferg, there's 10 years of evidence which suggests he probably won't get much better so wouldn't be a pick on potential. Lots more room for development in early Clarke than Ferg now, who isn't doing enough to be picked on performance so he's no banker either.
    Clarke had 5 seasons before he got picked for his Test debut. Ferguson is going into his 6th now. So not much difference on that front, there is a difference in the age of their debut with Clarke at 23 while Ferguson will be 26 if he makes his one. 3 years extra for Clarke to develop. Essentially it means Ferguson can't afford to be dropped as if that were to happen he'll probably be 28 and by the time he has enough time to show his worth he'll be hitting 30. He would need Mike Hussey, Hayden or Katich like form to get himself back in plus the youngsters not making their mark.

  4. #349
    Cricketer Of The Year four_or_six's Avatar
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    One thing I don't get about this squad (apart from nine batsmen, WTF?) is that O'Keefe isn't in it. What are they going to do if he plays well against us and Hauritz and Doherty don't play well next week, bring him into the squad anyway? Surely the spare spinner should be playing in the AusA match.


  5. #350
    Cricket Web: All-Time Legend Top_Cat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sylvester View Post
    Clarke had 5 seasons before he got picked for his Test debut. Ferguson is going into his 6th now. So not much difference on that front, there is a difference in the age of their debut with Clarke at 23 while Ferguson will be 26 if he makes his one. 3 years extra for Clarke to develop. Essentially it means Ferguson can't afford to be dropped as if that were to happen he'll probably be 28 and by the time he has enough time to show his worth he'll be hitting 30. He would need Mike Hussey, Hayden or Katich like form to get himself back in plus the youngsters not making their mark.
    Come on. M Clarke played in 3 Australian summers before being picked for Australia in Tests and was only a regular pick for NSW in 2 of them. Ferg has been a regular in the SA team for 5 seasons and has started this one.

    Ferg's been in the set-up here since he was 16 but wasn't picked until he was around 21. There were calls to pick him way earlier than when he eventually was (SA were a really crap team in the early 00's) but, funnily enough, even with the team as dire as they were, was felt he was more style than substance.
    Last edited by Top_Cat; 15-11-2010 at 12:55 AM.
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  6. #351
    International Debutant iamdavid's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by four_or_six View Post
    One thing I don't get about this squad (apart from nine batsmen, WTF?) is that O'Keefe isn't in it. What are they going to do if he plays well against us and Hauritz and Doherty don't play well next week, bring him into the squad anyway? Surely the spare spinner should be playing in the AusA match.
    O'Keefe missed the last round of Shield matches so NSW could play Hauritz....although the selectors would've known that was going to happen when they named the Aus A team. And Doherty has had a very good couple of weeks at exactly the right time...never mind the fact he averages 50 odd in FC cricket.

    Shows just how close ANY spinner in the country really is to selection, a few good weeks is probably all it would take to convince them to pick any one of of Bailey, Heal, Cullen, Simpson, Krezja, Boyce...hell probably even Aaron O'Brien.

  7. #352
    State Captain Sylvester's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Prince EWS View Post
    Clarke also put two good Shield seasons together, maintained those ODI performances for a longer period, hadn't just come off a year-long injury and, most importantly, was actually a bit of a flop in his first stint at Test cricket anyway. He scored that debut ton and then completely faded away to a point where he was dropped - he only became the batsman he is after going back and piling on the runs for New South Wales.
    When the selectors mark you down as a future test player all those things you mentioned go out the window. I'm just pointing out where the selectors are coming from and the similarities between Ferguson being picked and Clarke. Personally I wanted Ferguson to have another season in FC before being considered for a Test spot which was before his injury and I still feel that way. But as I said the selectors really rate him so all that goes out the window.

  8. #353
    You'll Never Walk Alone Nate's Avatar
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    Doherty pretty much has the same average as Hauritz in the Shield ftr.
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  9. #354
    State Captain Sylvester's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Top_Cat View Post
    Come on. M Clarke played in 3 Australian summers before being picked for Australia in Tests and was only a regular pick for NSW in 2 of them. Ferg has been a regular in the SA team for 5 seasons and has started this one.

    Ferg's been in the set-up here since he was 16 but wasn't picked until he was around 21. Funnily enough, it was thought he's more style than substance as a player.
    Clarke played 7 games in 99-00, 5 in 00-01, 9 in 01-02, 11 in 02-03, 3 in 03-04, 12 in 04 during his English stint. So essentially apart from 00-01 hes played close to a full season the 03-04 is made up by his stint in County Cricket. That is basically 5 seasons of cricket before being picked for test debut.
    Last edited by Sylvester; 15-11-2010 at 12:59 AM.

  10. #355
    International Coach flibbertyjibber's Avatar
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    Can't believe that you have picked 17.I thought 15 was totally over doing it but 17????

    Either the selectors have no idea whatsoever what the side should be (and if they haven't by now they should all be sacked) or there are actually more injury concerns than they are letting on.I mean why pick 3 spinners in the squad? Surely all this does is heap more pressure on Hauritz who i presume will play and we all know when the heat is on he doesn't cut the mustard.

    So you can name the England team now and our bowlers are heading for Brisbane to get ready,yet i have no idea what side Australia will pick after naming so many players.

  11. #356
    U19 Cricketer Oscillatingmind's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DeusEx View Post
    I just don't think that's a good approach though. That's pretty much why Ferguson got picked - because he has been in good form lately. Yet we all know Ferguson is essentially a player with an average of 35, and nothing more at this stage. The North analogy isn't good either, because North shouldn't have been picked in the first place (as his FC record has never been that outstanding). The main fear I have with Ferguson, is that if he does happen to play in the Ashes he might be another case like North where he is retained in the team for far too long.
    Hughes is great, and should have been persisted with longer when he was playing, but as it is he's out of form and for his sake I think it'd be better to pick him when his back to his best not while in the middle of a slump. Ferguson shouldn't be in the squad, if they really think he's a future test prospect or talent then they should make him play shield matches and prove it.
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  12. #357
    Hall of Fame Member Howe_zat's Avatar
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    Didn't the selectors public back North, Hussey and Hauritz back in India?

    So are they going back on themselves, or are they half-heartedly appeasing the fans?

    Either way, doesn't send a great message.
    'It seems that perfection is attained, not when there is nothing more to add, but when there is nothing more to take away.'

  13. #358
    U19 Cricketer Oscillatingmind's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by flibbertyjibber View Post
    Can't believe that you have picked 17.I thought 15 was totally over doing it but 17????

    Either the selectors have no idea whatsoever what the side should be (and if they haven't by now they should all be sacked) or there are actually more injury concerns than they are letting on.I mean why pick 3 spinners in the squad? Surely all this does is heap more pressure on Hauritz who i presume will play and we all know when the heat is on he doesn't cut the mustard.

    So you can name the England team now and our bowlers are heading for Brisbane to get ready,yet i have no idea what side Australia will pick after naming so many players.
    IThis squad of 17 will be reduced to a 12 or 13-man squad at the conclusion of the next round of Sheffield Shield games and prior to the team arriving in Brisbane for the first Test. - Hilditch

  14. #359
    International Captain Ruckus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Oscillatingmind View Post
    Hughes is great, and should have been persisted with longer when he was playing, but as it is he's out of form and for his sake I think it'd be better to pick him when his back to his best not while in the middle of a slump. Ferguson shouldn't be in the squad, if they really think he's a future test prospect or talent then they should make him play shield matches and prove it.
    I dunno, if Hughes was picked it might actually have boosted his confidence and helped him out of his 'slump'. He would feel pretty disappointed at the moment, that's for sure (especially seeing as though the squad named was a massive 17 players). I definately agree with you about Ferguson though.

  15. #360
    International Vice-Captain robelinda's Avatar
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    Clint McKay in for Starc for the A team, i like McKay's bowling, he is worth a good run.



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