*Official* Road to the 2010/11 Ashes

[TumTum]

McDonald keeping it tight is his strenght, thats clear. But its not a McGrath/Ambrose wicket-taking tight. He will bowl 6 balls on the same spot & good batsmen in tests should be good enough to respect that. But if they want to go into second gear againts him, they can do that & hit him off his lenght quite without much fuss, since he doesn't bowl any special wicket-taking deliveries.

In every match in SA as i've gone through before. McDonald basically fed off & was allowed to be economical because of superb the pace trio where in the 1st two tests. SA where never in a dominant enough batting position until the Capetown to take advantage of him "the obvious weak-link" in the bowling attack. He never posed a wicket-taking threat, AUS where better off picking another fast-bowler in SA, such as Nannes ATT after Bollinger went home injured.

From what I remember of that series, at one point when SA batsmen were about to get loose (can't remember which test), McDonald was brought on with 2 short midwicket fielders and was asked to bowl straight. He literally choked them to death, first the runs all but dried up and then the batsmen tried playing slightly more across the line to tuck him into leg side and BAM McDonald changed the direction of that innings. He got some seam movement of the pitch as well.

Hilfenhaus was by far out weakest link in the first 2 Tests.

 

[Son Of Coco]

No, that's fair enough, I think I misunderstood your last post as it sounded to me like you were refuting one of his performances.

My take on Anderson for the last two years is that he has definitely improved, but he still has another step to take. A few years back he was good when it swung and expensive when it didn't. Nowadays, I think he's the best in the world when it swings, and quiet when it doesn't. It makes him less of a liability but obviously still means he''ll run through teams away from home less often. This series is massive for him.

I have a feeling Broad will go well as he is less dependent on conditions, Onions is a big miss over there for my money though.

Was going to mention Onions in my last post actually. Thought he was the best English bowler last time around. Would be pretty dangerous in Oz I think.

And I agree it's a big series for Jimmeh, I'm certainly not writing off his chances of performing well over the 5 tests...just am a little dubious given what I've seen of him and the preceding hype before last series. I don't watch a lot of him in between Ashes series though, so there's every chance he's improved again and will do more damage.

Reckon you're right about Broad too, as much as I hate to admit it If he doesn't get carried away with being the angry fast bowler and just bowls to his strengths he should go alright.

 

[aussie]

Firstly, no-one is talking about batting McDonald at 6 - if the wicket is greenish at Brisbane, then he is a viable option as a straight replacement for Hauritz

Secondly, there was no "superb pace trio" in any match McDonald played.

There were 2 extremely promising quicks in Johnson and Siddle, one relative dud (both Bollinger and Hilf were roundly criticised for their performances in the games in question and no short-sighted revisionism will change this fact) and no reliable spin option

In short, McDonald was easily the 3rd best bowler in every test he played

Thirdly, McDonald has been playing long enough in by far the strongest fc comp in the world for us to deduce that his record is no fluke

Fourthly, McDonald is unfashionable because he is an unfashionable cricketer - he bowls medium pace, is a gutsy batsman and no better than a trier in the field

However, whatever he does, he does well and consistently which is a vast improvement over many of the incumbents IMO

Fifthly,if he is so easy to hit, why dont people do it more often?

How about the fact that he is faaaaaaaaaaaaaar better than you credit him for being

Firslty again. How if the wicket is greenish @ Brisbane would McDonald be a better straight replacement for Hauritz than one of Harris/Siddle/George fitness/form permitting?


Secondly i did say that Johnson/Siddle/Hilfy where a "superb pace trio". I said in that portion of quote:

In every match in SA as i've gone through before. McDonald basically fed off & was allowed to be economical because of how superb the pace trio where in the 1st two tests. SA where never in a dominant enough batting position until the Capetown to take advantage of him "the obvious weak-link" in the bowling attack. He never posed a wicket-taking threat, AUS where better off picking another fast-bowler in SA, such as Nannes ATT after Bollinger went home injured.

Basically refering tho superb all three of them (especially Johnson & Sidvicious) stepped up in SA.

Yo are the one i'm afraid who are making the short sighted revisionism. Since I no nothing of Bollinger & Hilfy being roundly criticized for their performances vs SA. Last i checked ATT, Bollinger had a very solid debut & certainly looked like he would be a big part of AUS future pace attack & that has turned out to be that case. Bollinger certainly wasn't being criticized here on crickeweb ATT, since on this site he has ALOT of fans & i recall many AUS posters being pissed he wasn't in the Ashes squad for example. Specific posters where calling for him to be in the main XI since after the 2007/08 home summer.

Same thing with Hilfy in SA. Its crazy anyone who would have watched him bowl in his debut series could have have been impressed. Last i checked after the SA series, many reckoned he would be a hit in the Ashes & that turned out to be the case.

In short McDonald in SA was never better than any of the 3 main bowlers. I already acknowledged he bowled well in his debut test @ SCG. My problem with that is that his selection was poor overall since he gave the side a poor balance with him batting @ 6. AUS could never sustain a team with him batting so high.


Thirdly i'm not saying his record his fluke. I'm just saying based on seeing him in his 4test, he is not capable of replicating his FC record at the test level at all, regardless of how strong AUS domestic cricket is. The selectors clearly saw this which is why even after his 1st test they batted him @ # 8 in SA. Since those domestic stats look like a player very capable of batting @ 6/7 in test, which clearly isn't the case.

I dont judge players on how fashionable they look. I judge them on merit & on merit McDonald isn't good enough to play test cricket for AUS in any role. Since better options exist across the board in every way.

However whatever McDonald can do well. Their are other players who can do better roles in the test side, better than him & just as consistently IMO.

Fiftly i never said he was easy to hit. I said McDonald keeping it tight is his strenght, thats clear. But its not a McGrath/Ambrose wicket-taking tight. He will bowl 6 balls on the same spot & good batsmen in tests should be good enough to respect that. But if they want to go into second gear againts him, they can do that & hit him off his lenght quite without much fuss, since he doesn't bowl any special wicket-taking deliveries. Which is exaclty what happened in the final test in SA @ Capetown, when for the only time in that series, SA got on top of the main pace trio & thus did the above to McDonald.

No McDonald is by no means far better than i gave him credit for. Rating him or giving him anymore credit like you have done is criminally overating him.

 

[Jarquis]

:facepalm:

 

[aussie]

From what I remember of that series, at one point when SA batsmen were about to get loose (can't remember which test), McDonald was brought on with 2 short midwicket fielders and was asked to bowl straight. He literally choked them to death, first the runs all but dried up and then the batsmen tried playing slightly more across the line to tuck him into leg side and BAM McDonald changed the direction of that innings. He got some seam movement of the pitch as well.

Hilfenhaus was by far out weakest link in the first 2 Tests.

I watched all those tests religiously. Have them on tape as well & i dont remember any scenario like this playing out (although i do remember Ponting having two short mid-wickets for him while he was bowling). But if you remember specifics of the scenario i.e which SA batsmen where batting ATT, which test & the score. That would be great.

By no means was HIlfy the weakest link in the 1st two test. My word this unbelievable revisionism im hearing here. Hilfenhaus provided almost the same accuracy McDonald had - but was a bigger wicket taking threat to SAs top order,

 

[vic_orthdox]

A stat that I saw today: Ricky Ponting is likely to be the only Australian cricketer who plays during the Ashes who has won more series against England than he has lost.

 

[vcs]

Aussie : In SA's first innings at Durban, I remember McDonald bowled very tightly after SA's top order had been decimated and took a few wickets which resulted in them getting bundled out for < 150.

 

[TumTum]

I watched all those tests religiously. Have them on tape as well & i dont remember any scenario like this playing out (although i do remember Ponting having two short mid-wickets for him while he was bowling). But if you remember specifics of the scenario i.e which SA batsmen where batting ATT, which test & the score. That would be great.

By no means was HIlfy the weakest link in the 1st two test. My word this unbelievable revisionism im hearing here. Hilfenhaus provided almost the same accuracy McDonald had - but was a bigger wicket taking threat to SAs top order,

Reading your above posts, I think I am talking about SCG forgot that McDonald made his debut there. He got Kallis c&b iirc.

But iirc he also go Kallis in SA, think Ponting caught him at short midwicket, he also got AB lbw.

If you look at his economy rate in the matches we won, he was the compensation for our bowlers inconsistencies (cough Hilfy cough).

 

[robelinda]

By no means was HIlfy the weakest link in the 1st two test. My word this unbelievable revisionism im hearing here. Hilfenhaus provided almost the same accuracy McDonald had - but was a bigger wicket taking threat to SAs top order,

Absolutely.

 

[TumTum]

Absolutely.

His figures look better than he looked on the pitch. It was basically half volley pies and no balls he kept dishing up. Then when he did actually get his direction right yeah he caused some trouble, but it was a bad debut series.

 

[robelinda]

Agree to disagree Tum Tum!

 

[TumTum]

Agree to disagree Tum Tum!

Disagree!

Well ok, but my point is that that series didn't warrant his selection for the '09 Ashes, guys like Brett Lee, Stuart Clark, Peter Siddle and even McDonald were higher in the pecking order.

 

[tooextracool]

I see McDonald purely as a bowler, don't rate his batting at all.

I hope for his own sake that hes a bowling all rounder. Had a shocking technique, honestly couldnt see him batting anywhere above 8.

 

[Jarquis]

He didn't exactly set Division 2 of the Championship alight this summer

Just checked the stats, 12 wickets at ~26 and 442 runs @ 44.20.
Hardly disgraced himself.

 

[marc71178]

Think it's more the 12 wickets in 6 matches.

 

[fredfertang]

Just checked the stats, 12 wickets at ~26 and 442 runs @ 44.20.
Hardly disgraced himself.

Didn't seek to suggest he had but given that more than a third of the runs came in one knock on a strip where less than 10 wickets fell you'd expect rather more from a man hoping to leave his mark on the Ashes

 

[aussie]

Aussie : In SA's first innings at Durban, I remember McDonald bowled very tightly after SA's top order had been decimated and took a few wickets which resulted in them getting bundled out for < 150.

No not really. That Durban test is rather the perfect example of what i've been saying of the scenario of McDonald benefiting from the pressure Johnson/Hilfy/Siddle created.

After Johnson had bowled one of the most intimadting spell of fast-bowling ever, ripping through the top. The SA batsmen had to play McDonald circumspectly. Especially Kallis who had his jaw shattered, who he dismissed.


Kallis ATT after Amla, McKenzie, Smith, AB where blown away reducing SA to 6-3 (basically 6-4 with Smith out injured). He being the senior batsmen had to take up role to secure the innings, so when McDonald came on he didn't play him circumspectly because he couldn't score off him, but rather because it was smart tactical decision for the situation. Dumminy was the man playing the shots.

When Kallis was hit on face by Johnson & retired out. He was dismissed two balls into his resumption to a loose shot:

24.5 Johnson to Kallis, no run, do we have another injury here, not a pretty sight! Short on middle, struck Kallis on the jaw from under the helmet, he's in pain and is bleeding, the physio is out and it may take some time before he's back on his feet. Lethal delivery that.

South Africa 56/3 JH Kallis 22* (76b 5x4)

41.5 McDonald to Kallis, no run, good length on the off stump, defended off the front foot toward cover

41.6 McDonald to Kallis, OUT, Kallis goes! Landed on middle and leg and moved back in just a touch, Kallis gets on the front foot and chips it straight to Ponting at short midwicket who takes a sharp catch diving to his right

JH Kallis c Ponting b McDonald 22 (117m 78b 5x4 0x6) SR: 28.20

South Africa 104/6 JH Kallis 22 (78b 5x4)

Here is a link to Kallis innings.

Reading your above posts, I think I am talking about SCG forgot that McDonald made his debut there. He got Kallis c&b iirc.

But iirc he also go Kallis in SA, think Ponting caught him at short midwicket, he also got AB lbw.

If you look at his economy rate in the matches we won, he was the compensation for our bowlers inconsistencies (cough Hilfy cough).

Well yes I've always said he played in role in the Sydney test, mainly because AUS had 5-bowlers. His accuracy was well utilized as a defensive bowler that kept Johnson/Siddle/Bollinger fresh. He never looked threatening however.

My gripe with his selection @ SCG was the fact that his batting, clearly wasn't test match number 6 quality. It affected the balance of the side & AUS got away with that stupid selection in Sydney.

If i had the luxury of seeing AUS domestic cricket & had saw him before that SCG test. I would have never advocated his selection, cause he clearly isn't good as his domestic stats suggest. Would have debuted Hilenhaus @ SCG & dropped Hauritz & debuted North earlier as well in that test.

Like sir rob. I'd agree to disagree on your position on Hilfy's bowling during that SA series.

Well ok, but my point is that that series didn't warrant his selection for the '09 Ashes, guys like Brett Lee, Stuart Clark, Peter Siddle and even McDonald were higher in the pecking order.

Nah Tummy. After seeing Hilfy bowl in SA. My estimation ATT was that he would be perfectly suited to bowling in ENG.

The pecking order going into the Ashes as i recall. The trio in SA bowled well enough to keep their place in the starting XI. While the retuning Lee & Clark from injuries & Bollinger where battling it out for the final 2 pace bowling spots in the squad. Lee & Clark won out in the end because of experience.

 

[King Pietersen]

I'm still impressed at how you manage to turn a reply to a 1 or 2 line post in to a half page essay. Doesn't mean I'm going to waste my time reading the same point repeated over and over again, but it's impressive nonetheless.

Roll on the actual bloody cricket. The build-up to big series like this is always dire, just roll on November so we can get the Australian misery over with.

 

[Prince EWS]

Who is Sir Rob?

 

[howardj]

Ashes: time for changes

Good article from Darren Berry.

Two myths about the Aussie team are:

(a) That we’re a young team. This is rubbish - the average age of our batting line-up is 33 years. Further, Johnson, Hauritz and Hilfenhaus are all in their mid-late 20s, and our keeper is pushing 34.

(b) That we’re a team in transition. This is rubbish too – a mere 18 months ago we beat the best team in the world at the time (South Africa) in their own backyard with basically the same players that are still in the team today. We’ve gone backwards since then.

Fact is, there are only about seven serious Test playing nations in the world. Of those, we are ranked a paltry 5th. At least on rankings, we’re back with the hapless Kiwis and the ramshackle Windies!

It’s not good enough, and not acceptable that we continue to accommodate players like:

- a 35 year old in serious decline for the last two years (Hussey) and

- A 32 year old, who averages in the 30s in Tests and in the low 40s in Shield Cricket (North). North is a number six who according to Cricinfo gets out for under twenty in 4 out of 5 Test innings. Is that Test standard?

It used to be cut-throat at the selection table, but nowadays they retain proven failures.

As far as I am concerned, Ponting ought to get used to copping critical tweets from greats like Warney. Because, guess what? Punter is now presiding over the 5th ranked team in the world – and he needs to get his head around that. He is no position, and has no right, to be stifling/deflecting/rejecting criticism – thinking he is above the fray. He is presiding over a mediocre outfit at the moment and needs to cop it sweet (or, in this case, cop it tweet).

Phew...that had been building up in me for days...