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The incredible fall of Australia....

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slippyslip

U19 12th Man
I'd love to see him try and say to Gayle, J Taylor, Ryder or McCullum that they don't try.

How long before Slippyslips face was caved in?
Since when Gayle said he cared more about Twenty20 cricket. Or didnt you follow the recent series against England? Gayle rocking up the day before the test series started ...

Ryder only cares about hamburgers and McCullum getting big $$ for one off Twenty20 matches. Or didnt you see Australia smash the hell out of New Zealand in the 2 match series last summer? A series that Australia haters have conveniently forgotten.

And when the ODI series came around New Zealand were somehow very competitive. Just like how New Zealand did well at the recent Twenty20 world cup. Or how New Zealand is quite often a competitive side in the 50 over world cup. Yet they still manage to suck ass in tests.

Anyway, yes Aussie lost to a team that on paper is probably weaker, but they also beat an awesome SA side. They're just inconsistent these days because they don't have the consistent world class play from Warne or McGrath. They still easily have the ability to kick ass though, look at some of the names on their team sheet.
Australia lost because our batsmen still havent learnt to play when the ball swings. Thats something "paper" can't predict nor can you factor that in. England did enough and took advantage of the conditions when it favoured them and won. And thats all you need to do.
 
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slippyslip

U19 12th Man
Posts like this are one of the reasons why beating Australia is so enjoyable.

Anyhow, before you get too carried away with yourself, try to remember that past performance is no guarantee of future performance. Particularly when you're replacing McGrath with Siddle, Warne with Hauritz, Gilchrist with Haddin (etc) and your best remaining players are reaching the end of their shelf lives.
Right. I remember the Barmy Army turning up in 2006 saying they were going to beat Australia at home.

Remind me how that turned out.

Edit: just like how people said the 2002/03 England was the "strongest" it was since 1986/87 and they were going to win.

Please also remind me how that turned out.
 
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tooextracool

International Coach
We deserve to be number 4 even though Sri Lanka has never even won a test in Australia and India has never won a series? Rubbish.
I think Sri Lanka is ranked higher than they should be but I don't think that will last very long. What I meant to say was that Australia are a middle of the road side and if they are 3-4 it would represent their position in International cricket at the moment.

India on the other hand, lets face it they've done everything thats asked off them. Ok they didn't beat Australia in Australia (although the result of that series is still up for some debate given the umpiring), but they beat England in England, they beat Nz in NZ, they thrashed Australia at home and they also beat England at home over the last couple of years. There is just little arguing with the fact that they should be the number 2 side(even if they are listed number 3).

And England arent a bad side at home. Terrible on the road, yes. But even the Australians expecting Australia to win werent expecting a series win like those from 1989-2001.
I disagree. England's batting this series has been bordering on disgraceful and it took some equally inept bowling from Australia to keep things on an even keel during the series. England may not be a poor team at home, but in the last 3 years, they drew with an average SL side, lost to India in 2007 and lost to South Africa in 2008. They certainly aren't as impressive a side as they were at home in the earlier part of this decade.

Other than the series in India Australia has not been thrashed - even then 2-0 to India in "trying" conditions wasnt that bad. We lost a close series to South Africa at home and a close series to England away. Hardly the end of the world.
The 2-0 loss to India was flattering them, they never had a hope of winning a game that series and if there were 4 result pitches, it would have been 4-0 and everyone including the neighbors dog knows that. If you ask me, losing 3 out of the last 5 series is not a top effort, and its certainly a lot poorer than the likes of SA and India.
 

Top_Cat

Request Your Custom Title Now!
The 2-0 loss to India was flattering them, they never had a hope of winning a game that series and if there were 4 result pitches, it would have been 4-0 and everyone including the neighbors dog knows that. If you ask me, losing 3 out of the last 5 series is not a top effort, and its certainly a lot poorer than the likes of SA and India.
Aus should have won at Mohali. The other Tests weren't close but that one was up for grabs. Just weren't quite good enough on a deck which held together pretty well for the match.
 

tooextracool

International Coach
Aus should have won at Mohali. The other Tests weren't close but that one was up for grabs. Just weren't quite good enough on a deck which held together pretty well for the match.
Im assuming you mean at Bangalore, because at Mohali they were thrashed by the small margin of 320 runs. That game was closer than the others, but I just don't think Australia had the ammunition to take 20 wickets in India and thats why the likes of Harbhajan and Zaheer were allowed to rescue India from that position because they were relatively untroubled.
 

slippyslip

U19 12th Man
Posts like this are one of the reasons why beating Australia is so enjoyable.

Anyhow, before you get too carried away with yourself, try to remember that past performance is no guarantee of future performance. Particularly when you're replacing McGrath with Siddle, Warne with Hauritz, Gilchrist with Haddin (etc) and your best remaining players are reaching the end of their shelf lives.
You do realise that neither Warne nor McGrath were our top bowler in the 2006/07 series? Stuar Clark was.

And 3 Australia bowlers took 20 wickers or more in this recent test. No English bowler took more than 18. You can hardly blame the bowlers for losing the Ashes. It was the batting collapses at Lord's and the Oval that lose the series.

There was more to Australian bowling than Warne and McGrath. Jason Gillespie was a better fast bowler than people realise. Lee has had some bad patch but still has 300+ test wickets (and is a top class ODI bowler) and MacGill was as good as any spinner on his day. Kasprowicz was probably Australia's best bowler in the series we beat India in India.

England's problem is that they rely on personalities and super stars. I dont know if thats a flow on from the Premier League and the football mentality. But when Australia was winning it was much more of a team effort than people realise.
 

zaremba

Cricketer Of The Year
Right. I remember the Barmy Army turning up in 2006 saying they were going to beat Australia at home.

Remind me how that turned out.

Edit: just like how people said the 2002/03 England was the "strongest" it was since 1986/87 and they were going to win.

Please also remind me how that turned out.
Embarrassing posting.

So the Barmy Army was proved wrong. And so were "people" (who?) the previous tour. What does that prove? Two things:

(1) don't make over-confident arrogant predictions or you risk ending up looking like an arse, and

(2) the Australian teams of that era were phenomenally strong because of the players then at their disposal. (Please remind me what's happened to Warne, McGrath, Gilchrist, Langer, Martyn and Hayden?)

And so all you've succeeded in proving are the very points I was trying to make.
 

zaremba

Cricketer Of The Year
You do realise that neither Warne nor McGrath were our top bowler in the 2006/07 series? Stuar Clark was.
...
There was more to Australian bowling than Warne and McGrath. Jason Gillespie was a better fast bowler than people realise. Lee has had some bad patch but still has 300+ test wickets (and is a top class ODI bowler) and MacGill was as good as any spinner on his day. Kasprowicz was probably Australia's best bowler in the series we beat India in India.
1. You've harked back to series all the way back to 1986/7. And over that period Warne and McGrath were obviously your two best bowlers.

2. Common consensus is that Clark won't play again.

3. Doubtful whether Lee will play again.

3. Gillespie has retired. Kasprowicz has retired. McGill has retired.

Listen I'm not trying to run your team down, I can see you're very loyal to them. All I'm saying is that you might want to exercise some restraint in knocking all the other teams in the way you have, and in saying that these will all be "easy" tests. It comes across as arrogant and childish, and you run the risk of making an arse of yourself.
 

slippyslip

U19 12th Man
I think Sri Lanka is ranked higher than they should be but I don't think that will last very long. What I meant to say was that Australia are a middle of the road side and if they are 3-4 it would represent their position in International cricket at the moment.
India on the other hand, lets face it they've done everything thats asked off them. Ok they didn't beat Australia in Australia (although the result of that series is still up for some debate given the umpiring), but they beat England in England, they beat Nz in NZ, they thrashed Australia at home and they also beat England at home over the last couple of years. There is just little arguing with the fact that they should be the number 2 side(even if they are listed number 3).

Ask Matt Hayden if the umpiring was good during the series in India. When umpiring decisions go against India they scream like little girls for years on end but when the umpiring goes in favour of India they are very quiet. India is like that loud, obnoxious person in the shop who gets served first because he is the loudest. They're the Americans of the cricketing world.

India have not beaten South Africa or Australia at home. End of story. And beating New Zealand at home in a test series these days is like taking candy from a baby. Australia last test tour of NZ was 3-0. When I was a kid beating NZ at home was near impossible.

New Zealand's limp wrist attemps in the 2 test series against Australia earlier bordered on the pathetic and farcical.

And for as for your argument "India has done everything asked of it". If Australia go undefeated for the next two years will you say "Australia is number 1 because they have done everything they've been asked"? Nope. You'll say "Australia isnt number 1 because they've been playing weak teams.

Ahhh, the double standards of people.


I disagree. England's batting this series has been bordering on disgraceful and it took some equally inept bowling from Australia to keep things on an even keel during the series. England may not be a poor team at home, but in the last 3 years, they drew with an average SL side, lost to India in 2007 and lost to South Africa in 2008. They certainly aren't as impressive a side as they were at home in the earlier part of this decade.
And England's bowling wasnt much better. But they did enough to win. And it doesnt matter how badly England played at Headingly, its only 1 loss. It doesnt matter if you lose by an innings a 7462876542354528364238674523 runs. A test counts for only 1 result.


The 2-0 loss to India was flattering them, they never had a hope of winning a game that series and if there were 4 result pitches, it would have been 4-0 and everyone including the neighbors dog knows that. If you ask me, losing 3 out of the last 5 series is not a top effort, and its certainly a lot poorer than the likes of SA and India.
And if there werent 4 doctored pitches Australia would ahve done better. Or should I remind you of Ganguly's child like fits when he saw green on the 2nd test pitch in 2004 and demanded a joke pitch, calling it a dust bowl would be an insult to dust bowls, be prepared for the 3rd test. You know, when Michael Clarke took 6 wickets in an innings against the best players of spin in the world.
 
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Smudge

Hall of Fame Member
Quality thread. Buzzing hard.

Geez there are some doom merchants on here. Gassing the selectors to death? A weak attempt at humour or not, that is disgusting.

Go outside, get some fresh air - just get some ****ing perspective in your lives, those of you who are metaphorically throwing yourselves off a cliff.
 

Top_Cat

Request Your Custom Title Now!
Im assuming you mean at Bangalore, because at Mohali they were thrashed by the small margin of 320 runs. That game was closer than the others, but I just don't think Australia had the ammunition to take 20 wickets in India and thats why the likes of Harbhajan and Zaheer were allowed to rescue India from that position because they were relatively untroubled.
haha, yeah that's the one. Flat deck didn't help matters either. India the far superior side, though obv.
 

slippyslip

U19 12th Man
1. You've harked back to series all the way back to 1986/7. And over that period Warne and McGrath were obviously your two best bowlers.
McGrath didnt play in a test series at home against England until 1994/95. But guess what. Neither Warne nor McGrath was Australia's best bowler that series.

McDermott was better than both combined that series. McGrath wasnt a factor in Ashes cricket until the 1997 tour. Infact, for his first year or two McGrath was nothing special and was 2nd to McDermott.

2. Common consensus is that Clark won't play again.
Wouldnt count on that

3. Doubtful whether Lee will play again.
Been hearing that for the last 5 years

3. Gillespie has retired. Kasprowicz has retired. McGill has retired.
Really????? I think you missed my point. You English people think Australia domination between 1989-2002/03 was ALL McGrath and Warne. Infact, English cricket fans bang on more about those 2 than Australians do. And the fact that English fans narrow Australia's domination down to those 2 is the reason England can't produce consistent and harmonious sides.

Listen I'm not trying to run your team down, I can see you're very loyal to them. All I'm saying is that you might want to exercise some restraint in knocking all the other teams in the way you have, and in saying that these will all be "easy" tests. It comes across as arrogant and childish, and you run the risk of making an arse of yourself.
Am I knocking England? In fact in this same thread I'm saying England are a decent side at home while others are disagreeing with me.

And even if England were crap at least they care about test cricket. Fans get disappointed when England loses tests and there are efforts to improve the game. Do you think Pakistan, NZ or West Indies would have fought back after a loss like Headingly? Nope. They would have rolled over and played dead.

Do you think anyone in NZ right now gives a flying crap about losing to Sri Lanka? No.
 
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Smudge

Hall of Fame Member
Do you think anyone in NZ right now gives a flying crap about losing to Sri Lanka? No.
Errrr wrong. Try again. I've expected us to lose this series, but don't equate that with not giving a flying crap. Probably best that you don't try speaking on behalf of all New Zealanders when you don't live here.
 

slippyslip

U19 12th Man
Errrr wrong. Try again. I've expected us to lose this series, but don't equate that with not giving a flying crap. Probably best that you don't try speaking on behalf of all New Zealanders when you don't live here.
I read the nzherald quite often. The amount of space devoted to the NZ v SL series is minuscule compared to the Tri-Nations and the NRL.

Tell me, over this weekend were people talking about the All Blacks 19-18 win over the Wallabies or NZ losing to SL?

Seems netball is getting more coverage. But come the ODI series and I'm sure more people will be interested and NZ will be a LOT more competitive.
 
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Smudge

Hall of Fame Member
I read the nzherald quite often.
If that's not the next best thing to living in NZ, I don't know what is.

The amount of space devoted to the NZ v SL series is minuscule compared to the Tri-Nations and the NRL.
Ummm so? Again, that doesn't mean people don't care - check the match thread in the main forum - there are plenty of Kiwis on there who give a ****. In fact, there have been several new NZ members who appear to have signed up as a result of this series.

Tell me, over this weekend were people talking about the All Blacks 19-18 win over the Wallabies or NZ losing to SL?
The All Blacks - but that's no surprise, considering most nations like talking about a winner - particularly in regards to a team that had been struggling in South Africa. And it's winter time in NZ, hence the major coverage being on rugby and the ABs.

Seems netball is getting more coverage.
Odd claim considering there is no competition on right now, after the ANZ championship finished a month or two back.

But come the ODI series and I'm sure more people will be interested and NZ will be a LOT more competitive.
Maybe, maybe not - the times that it airs on NZ TV won't change, so it'll probably still be the same bunch of people, including myself.
 

Athlai

Not Terrible
I read the nzherald quite often. The amount of space devoted to the NZ v SL series is minuscule compared to the Tri-Nations and the NRL.

Tell me, over this weekend were people talking about the All Blacks 19-18 win over the Wallabies or NZ losing to SL?

Seems netball is getting more coverage. But come the ODI series and I'm sure more people will be interested and NZ will be a LOT more competitive.
You are ****ing ********.
 

slippyslip

U19 12th Man
If that's not the next best thing to living in NZ, I don't know what is.



Ummm so? Again, that doesn't mean people don't care - check the match thread in the main forum - there are plenty of Kiwis on there who give a ****. In fact, there have been several new NZ members who appear to have signed up as a result of this series.
There are plenty of people in Australia that care about Lacrosse. They even have their own forums in which they discuss their favourite sport. Whats your point?


The All Blacks - but that's no surprise, considering most nations like talking about a winner - particularly in regards to a team that had been struggling in South Africa. And it's winter time in NZ, hence the major coverage being on rugby and the ABs.
Its winter here too. Or didnt you realise that Australia and NZ are in the same hemisphere? You do realise that Australia play rugby too? You know, we're the Wallabies. Not only that its coming up to NRL and AFL finals. Have you ever been to Melbourne? If you think New Zealanders are fanatical about rugby, or Indians about cricket you've never seen people from Adelaide, Perth or Melbourne talk about Aussie Rules. They're obsessed with it yet they Australia losing the Ashes is headline news in those cities. And we lost.
 

zaremba

Cricketer Of The Year
You English people think Australia domination between 1989-2002/03 was ALL McGrath and Warne.
Thanks for trying to tell me what "you English people think", but, predictably, you're wrong. In my previous post, in addition to Warne and McGrath, I mentioned Gilchrist, Langer, Martyn and Hayden. A clue perhaps that I was aware that Australian success over that period extended beyond just those two?

Anyhow you seem to disagree with my statement that, over the period 1987-2007, Warne and McGrath were obviously your two best bowlers. So who would you say were your two best bowlers over that period if not them? (Or were you just trying to make a pedantic point that they hadn't both played over that entire period? In which case, it's the worst point you've made yet.)
 

Smudge

Hall of Fame Member
There are plenty of people in Australia that care about Lacrosse. They even have their own forums in which they discuss their favourite sport. Whats your point?
My point is that your claim that no one in NZ cares about this test loss (remember? You posted it further up the thread):

Do you think anyone in NZ right now gives a flying crap about losing to Sri Lanka? No.
... is inherently wrong.




Its winter here too. Or didnt you realise that Australia and NZ are in the same hemisphere? You do realise that Australia play rugby too?
Could you be any more condescending if you tried? I know more about rugby union than you will ever forget.

Not only that its coming up to NRL and AFL finals. Have you ever been to Melbourne?
Yep. Was there last month in fact. And totally agree that they're fanatical. Still doesn't make your initial claim any more correct.

Fact is, rugby union is bigger than cricket in NZ. No denying that, but you made a big bad bold statement which you, quite frankly, cannot back up.
 
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