Langer's pre-ashes dossier in the Telegraph

[Top_Cat]

I think the reaction from some of the English about this is slightly amusing (as is Langer's re: being diappointed it was leaked). I don't think Langer's too far off the mark with a lot of what he says. He's played against these guys for a long time and would be aware of their strengths and weaknesses. And his assessment of the English approach, while a generalisation, is fairly accurate too in my opinion. It's been said for years by Australian cricketers and from my experience playing cricket there is ingrained from the lower levels up. There are obvious exceptions through the years, Botham and Flintoff being a couple of them.

Beefy, sure. Flintoff's bowling hasn't escaped that, I reckon. Has his moments but a lot of the time, he's well back of a length, topping out at 135-140Km/h and not going for many runs but not looking like taking any wickets either. He looks a completely different, world-class bowler when he throws it up there. Just doesn't happen all that often.

[Son Of Coco]

Beefy, sure. Flintoff's bowling hasn't escaped that, I reckon. Has his moments but a lot of the time, he's well back of a length, topping out at 135-140Km/h and not going for many runs but not looking like taking any wickets either. He looks a completely different, world-class bowler when he throws it up there. Just doesn't happen all that often.

Yeah true, but I think Flintoff has a bit more aggression about him than your average English player. Although his captaincy in 2006/07 probably didn't come across as being overly aggressive in the face of things.

[howardj]

How did Australia look on the tour to India in 1997/1998?

And how would we have looked being up against McGrath and Warne during the past 15 years?

I think, when you have the best bowlers, the opposition is always as Langer describes, going to drop their bundle at some stage.

[Son Of Coco]

How did Australia look on the tour to India in 1997/1998?

And how would we have looked being up against McGrath and Warne during the past 15 years?

I think, when you have the best bowlers, the opposition is always as Langer describes, going to drop their bundle at some stage.

He's not just talking about their reaction to the bowlers though. He's talking about a general reaction to both bowling pressures and batting pressures.

You're right though in that it is extremely difficult to keep your chin up against an opposition that is both stronger and expected to win. Some players do this better than others though and I think that's what he's commenting on. There are players in all teams who react differently in pressure situations and either step up or go missing.

And his comment about front-running isn't really related to relative strength of the teams in my opinion as he's using his experiences in county cricket as well as tests. I noticed a very conservative approach when I was there, but admittedly I didn't play every English player that's ever lived.

[howardj]

I take what you're saying about some of his specific comments. Just making the general comment though that generally when you're getting beaten over the head by all-time greats, series after series, every aspect of one's game suffers. And the Ashes was really the only prism through which he saw England's Test players. Australia looked very meak and ordinary in 2003/2004 without Warne and McGrath, and 1997/1998 without McGrath, and with an injured Warne. And Ponting's captaincy was roundly criticised in 2005 when England's bowlers worked magic. I just think much of your demeanour can stem from your ability to boss the game - which is more often than not, wrought by world class bowlers.

ANyway, back on topic to the brown nosed gnome....

[social]

Exactly what I'd be thinking if I was bowling to JL in his next match, especially if I was one of the blokes in the dossier. I doubt we'll see Jimmy huddled in the corner of his shower in tears screaming "I AM NOT A PUSSY!" JL should have just said "Yeah, so what? Prove me wrong."

Let this be a lesson in netiquette for JL; never, ever say anything in an email you wouldn't be comfortable with sharing publicly.

The article above is hilarious; haven't seen that much arse-covering since Bill Clinton walked into a prom.

NAFTA.

Agree with this

The guy has nothing to be ashamed of as he was asked for his opinion, gave it and not only has much of what he wrote proven to be correct but it has also been supported by Vaughan

Rather than whining because he's suddenly scared that he may lose popularity in the UK, I'd have more respect for him if he simply said "prove me wrong"

[aussie]

I take what you're saying about some of his specific comments. Just making the general comment though that generally when you're getting beaten over the head by all-time greats, series after series, every aspect of one's game suffers. And the Ashes was really the only prism through which he saw England's Test players. Australia looked very meak and ordinary in 2003/2004 without Warne and McGrath, and 1997/1998 without McGrath, and with an injured Warne. And Ponting's captaincy was roundly criticised in 2005 when England's bowlers worked magic. I just think much of your demeanour can stem from your ability to boss the game - which is more often than not, wrought by world class bowlers.

ANyway, back on topic to the brown nosed gnome....

Fair point this. Although i do agree with JL

[Matt79]

Don't see what the fuss is about. JL used one harsh word in a five page essay, in regards to a point Vaughan and most observers would agree is accurate.

I don't see why he would expect something he sent privately to the Aussie team would become public either.

Funny how he's copped more slings here for saying Bopara is a good player than he has for calling Anderson a pussy.

[Jono]

It was an awesome read, but Jeez, hearing some of the interviews with Langer, you'd think naked photos of his wife have been released. He should harden up as much as Anderson should.

[Jono]

He has done nothing which us fans have not debated in forums like this.

He was making a joke about the term 'apartment' being used, when 'department' was the correct terminology.

[Burgey]

It was an awesome read, but Jeez, hearing some of the interviews with Langer, you'd think naked photos of his wife have been released. He should harden up as much as Anderson should.

This.

Been surprised and disappointed at times this series with Anderson's pouting it must be said. Think Langer might have been on the money tbh but there's no point him sooking about it.

[pasag]

Really hope the 'Pussy' nickname doesn't stick, simply because there are so many in this England team more deserving.

[BoyBrumby]

I reckon Phil Hughes is a possible source of the leak, myself. Before the third test Langer was semi-seriously chucking his hat into the ring for the openers gig...

Or that's the otherwise baseless rumour I'm starting, anyway.

[Ikki]

Really hope the 'Pussy' nickname doesn't stick, simply because there are so many in this England team more deserving.

Only Broad comes to mind. The rest are just ****s (the c-word).

[GIMH]

I think anyone describing Broad as a pussy is judging him on appearance and nothing else. He's not intimidated by anyone really, and he generally bowls worse in his earlier spells I find so hardly lets his head drop if he does get hit around the park.