*Official* Fourth Test at Headingley

[Riggins]

Thought Haddin kept well in this game considering the state of his finger.

While on this topic, how much do people exaggerate (a) the keeping skills of keepers who are pretty useless with the bat eg Manou and (b) put down the keeping skills of those who are awesome with the bat eg Gilchrist and lately Haddin.

People just love to sieze on any keeping mistakes made by guys like Gilly etc, as though they're in the team just because of their batting. While some folk went so over the top with Manou's glovework at Edgbaston.

Not really, people don't really exaggerate manou's keeping, they briefly mentioned it, which is fair considering he's making his test debut as a keeper, and he is clearly a great pure wicketkeeper. Also, they talk down haddin's because comparitively it is much worse, not just against manou/gilchrist but also many other keepers around the world. Try Haddin letting through more byes in the first half hour of the 4th test than manou let through in total.

People rarely talked down Gilly's keeping, despite being such a good batsman he was as good a keeper as Australia has had in a long time (imo better than healy.)

 

[Son Of Coco]

Its a lazy Sunday mate

Was more focused on being able to suggest an onion would be better than Bell and Bopara than worrying about a typo to be honest.

 

[howardj]

Not really, people don't really exaggerate manou's keeping, they briefly mentioned it, which is fair considering he's making his test debut as a keeper, and he is clearly a great pure wicketkeeper.

I don't see any evidence of this; and it's surely a judgement you can not make until you've seen him keep on a wearing 5th day wicket to legspinners coming out of the rough for example. On the evidence available Manou is serviceable. Plus, Manou has never had the workload of Test keeper. Domestic keepers never have to play back-to-back FC games, let alone 5 Tests in 7 weeks.

People rarely talked down Gilly's keeping, despite being such a good batsman he was as good a keeper as Australia has had in a long time (imo better than healy

I definitely do not agree with that. People ripped into Gilchrist bigtime.

I

 

[zaremba]

Yes, as opposed to the cultured English. Ranks up there with Poms sermonising about cultural sensitivity, use of the English language and dental hygiene.

Using the hypocrisy line isn't really wise given none of our countries are bastions of decency 100% of the time. I've met some chavs and neds in my time, don't think it'd be fair to assume you are all like that though.

And GIMH is right I think, he's English as far as I know.

Yeah I got that post arse-about-tit as I've explained - and apologised twice for it. How much longer must I wear the hair shirt for?

 

[Ikki]

Agree with Howard re people exaggerating the keeping skills of people who can't bat as well as those who can bat awesomely and keep.

 

[zaremba]

Agree with Howard re people exaggerating the keeping skills of people who can't bat as well as those who can bat awesomely and keep.

Yes it's a good point, well made.

Although I'm guilty of this myself when the mood takes me - eg in the Jack Russell / Alec Stewart debate.

 

[Son Of Coco]

Yeah I got that post arse-about-tit as I've explained - and apologised twice for it. How much longer must I wear the hair shirt for?

I saw the apologies afterwards. I think you can take it off now

 

[Riggins]

I don't see any evidence of this; and it's surely a judgement you can not make until you've seen him keep on a wearing 5th day wicket to legspinners coming out of the rough for example.


I definitely do not agree with that. People ripped into Gilchrist bigtime.

I

people didnt rip into gilchrist as he established himself in the test team. Yes, He took loads when he pushed Healy out of the one day set up i understand, but as for test cricket he did not take what you think imo. Being from qld where the pro-healy press was probably at its strongest also skews your opinion on this in my opinion.


Also, your right about not seeing manou keeping on a fifth day test pitch keeping to a leg spinner coming out of the rough, on that same count you can downplay pretty much all keepers of the last generation other than gilchrist/healy, so it doesn't really influence the decision that much.
I have however seen manou keeping on the 4th day of FC games, also when Tait's bowling like the wind, and equally as off-target as he was lightning quick. As a keeper myself and having seen alot of manou, unlike you, i can make an asessment.

 

[Craig]

Mediocrity? Since when is being the fifth best country in a world of 200 mediocrity? Losing a quarter-final to Brazil by the odd flukey goal, being knocked out on penalties by a world-class Portugal side, that's competing with the best and it's so, so far from mediocrity.

But in your heads it's mediocrity. "Woe is us, how mediocre we are."

Portugal is pretty over-rated for mine. A bunch of freakin' divers with a certain newly signed Real Madrid winger who is an expert at such 'feats'.

 

[DaRick]

Nah, it's just not true. The tabloids do whip up the nationliastic fervour, but there's no way we can be happy with what our national team has done. How many of the really big teams have we beaten in finals tournaments? I can think of about three going back to '66: Holland in '96 (who qualified anyway), Germany in 2000 (when neither of us qualified) & Argentina in 2002 thanks to a Mickey Owen dive.

It's not unrealistic to expect more.

Hey, it's not all ****ty underachievement; after all, you guys did well at the Olympics recently (as Great Britain). So it's not all bad, just most of it!

 

[four_or_six]

Flintoff thinks he should have played... comments from his agent

"I've seen a few disappointed sportsmen over the last couple of months but I've never seen anybody as low as Flintoff was on Thursday night when he was told he would not be selected," Chandler told the Times. "He told them that he was fit enough to get through, that he felt no different to how he felt at Edgbaston and that he could get through and do his bit. They didn't want him."

"He [Flintoff] just didn't see it coming. He wanted to play and they didn't want him, and he didn't see that coming at all."

"He was hurting at Lord's but the adrenalin got him through. It would have got him through this week as well. His presence would certainly have lifted the crowd and the team, because without him they don't have much inspiration"

Pretty poor form, stuff like this. Suck it up and if you're that upset, let it all out after the final match.

Man, Flower and Strauss have guts, you have to say that. No-one takes on Fred.

 

[GIMH]

Clearly he should have played if he felt the same as he did in the previous matches though.

 

[vic_orthdox]

Made it sound as though he looked shocking in the training session though.

 

[GIMH]

Obviously we never saw much, but when he was on SSN bowling in the nets last week, he looked fine.

Not saying it would have made a difference to the result, but I'm still raging

 

[four_or_six]

Clearly he should have played if he felt the same as he did in the previous matches though.

Well, not sure about Edgbaston, he didn't really look very okay there, especially batting but bowling too.

It's difficult because in an ideal world, we don't want people playing for England saying they can only put in the effort if we're about to win, and if not they can't because the adrenalin isn't going. I would have been better to have made the draw at Edgbaston closer if possible, to keep on top of the Aussies. Obviously though, it's not an ideal world.

 

[GIMH]

I definitely agree that the way we gave up the ghost last Monday was very disappointing. Wasted a few hours of my life watching us go through the motions as well.

 

[Ikki]

Love the avatar GIMH.

 

[GIMH]

Yeah, me too, I love the Union Flag in the top corner of it that reminds me that you lot will always be our bitches

 

[four_or_six]

Yeah, me too, I love the Union Flag in the top corner of it that reminds me that you lot will always be our bitches

The flag's quite... shiny and fake. It looks weird.

 

[Ikki]

I don't see any Union jack: