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Thread: How Many Centuries Will Phil Hughes Score?

  1. #91
    Hall of Fame Member Son Of Coco's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rivera213 View Post
    I don't know what Hughes is thinking privately (I never said I did), but sportsmen don't admit what they're really thinking for the majority of the time. Sportsmen/women are actually coached into what type of things to say to the media (in England) and more importantly what NOT to say.

    You're really naive man. Seriously. Wake up and smell the barby, blue.
    Yes, you're right. I am naive, but then travelling to 30 countries will do that to you.

    Agree with someone else here who said you sound eerily familiar...
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  2. #92
    Cricket Web: All-Time Legend andyc's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rivera213 View Post
    Hey, I'm a ****
    Fixed.
    Quote Originally Posted by flibbertyjibber View Post
    Only a bunch of convicts having been beaten 3-0 and gone 9 tests without a win and won just 1 in 11 against England could go into the home series saying they will win. England will win in Australia again this winter as they are a better side which they have shown this summer. 3-0 doesn't lie girls.

  3. #93
    Global Moderator vic_orthdox's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by andyc View Post
    Fixed.
    Andy, please refrain from abusing other members. Just because you don't agree with him, and he has very parochial viewpoints, doesn't mean that he doesn't have the right to post here.

  4. #94
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    Quote Originally Posted by rivera213 View Post

    Well he isn't dire. We've had plenty of dire batsmen though. He just for some reason has brain farts. In effect it's the same thing.

    Although maybe not statistically true, it seems as though he gets himself out much more than the bowler getting him out. If Dale Steyn bows a 90mph ripper and takes off stump then there's nothing you can do, but Bell often edges or goes for too expansive a shot when the deliveries aren't worthy of a wicket.

    It's annoying since aesthtically, he is 1 of the best. Similar to David Gower in that regard, though Gower was much better.

    One word:

    Ganga
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  5. #95
    Hall of Fame Member Son Of Coco's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Burgey View Post
    Bell is one of those conundrums. He looks a million bucks technically, looks composed at the crease for the most part, but there's something missing that's stopping him being the complete package right now.

    I wonder if he's too correct int he way he plays.
    To me Bell always looked unsure of whether he was good enough to be there in the first place. When he walked out to bat in The Ashes in 06 he almost looked apologetic. He obviously has some talent, but mentally I think maybe he's lacking a bit of belief.

  6. #96
    Cricket Web: All-Time Legend Uppercut's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Son Of Coco View Post
    To me Bell always looked unsure of whether he was good enough to be there in the first place. When he walked out to bat in The Ashes in 06 he almost looked apologetic. He obviously has some talent, but mentally I think maybe he's lacking a bit of belief.
    That's the popular opinion of Bell- personally i think he's just not very good, more prone to making mistakes than others when faced with good bowling. It's not a technical problem, he just doesn't have the consistent ability to get to 100 without hitting one to a fielder.

    The other thing that confuses me a bit is when pundits say things like, "He's got the technique, so he just needs to get the mental side of his game sorted out and he'll be fine." Mental problems are invariably harder to sort out than technical ones, and I'd much rather they chose someone whose head is in the right place and worked on the technical side of his game than someone whose head is ****ed but is technically perfect.
    Quote Originally Posted by zaremba View Post
    The Filth have comfortably the better bowling. But the Gash have the batting. Might be quite good to watch.

  7. #97
    Global Moderator vic_orthdox's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Uppercut View Post
    That's the popular opinion of Bell- personally i think he's just not very good, more prone to making mistakes than others when faced with good bowling. It's not a technical problem, he just doesn't have the consistent ability to get to 100 without hitting one to a fielder.

    The other thing that confuses me a bit is when pundits say things like, "He's got the technique, so he just needs to get the mental side of his game sorted out and he'll be fine." Mental problems are invariably harder to sort out than technical ones, and I'd much rather they chose someone whose head is in the right place and worked on the technical side of his game than someone whose head is ****ed but is technically perfect.
    They aren't two independent variables. The more tight your technique, the more that you tend to trust it. Bell doesn't trust his own game, it's how he gets out in front of the wicket so often forcing the pace. And people find that annoying and frustrating, because people with a technique not nearly as tight manage to find that trust in their own game and technique.

  8. #98
    Cricket Web Staff Member Burgey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Richard View Post
    That doesn't make it wrong - the fact that it's wrong makes it wrong.
    Nah, it's right. Your ****ty climate has a lot to do with it imo.

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  9. #99
    Hall of Fame Member Son Of Coco's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Uppercut View Post
    That's the popular opinion of Bell- personally i think he's just not very good, more prone to making mistakes than others when faced with good bowling. It's not a technical problem, he just doesn't have the consistent ability to get to 100 without hitting one to a fielder.

    The other thing that confuses me a bit is when pundits say things like, "He's got the technique, so he just needs to get the mental side of his game sorted out and he'll be fine." Mental problems are invariably harder to sort out than technical ones, and I'd much rather they chose someone whose head is in the right place and worked on the technical side of his game than someone whose head is ****ed but is technically perfect.
    I wasn't aware of that to be honest. I don't take a hell of a lot of notice of what Bell's up to unless he's playing against Australia.

    Personally I think not having enough faith in yourself and your ability is a pathway to other mental issues that will ultimately affect your game. His technique never looked amazing either though in my opinion. Certainly didn't stand out from anyone else batting to me.

  10. #100
    Hall of Fame Member Son Of Coco's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by vic_orthdox View Post
    They aren't two independent variables. The more tight your technique, the more that you tend to trust it. Bell doesn't trust his own game, it's how he gets out in front of the wicket so often forcing the pace. And people find that annoying and frustrating, because people with a technique not nearly as tight manage to find that trust in their own game and technique.
    I was just trying to think of how to say something similar to this in the post above. Was thinking of a game where he seemed to be going along ok and then hit one in the air straight to Ponting (I think) at short cover on about 50. Came out of nowhere.

    I don't think Bell knows what approach to take and tries them all.

  11. #101
    U19 Vice-Captain rivera213's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Son Of Coco View Post
    Yes, you're right. I am naive, but then travelling to 30 countries will do that to you.
    You could travel to every country in the world, you're still naive if you think sportsmen say publicly what they're really thinking.


    Agree with someone else here who said you sound eerily familiar...
    I don't know what to say.

    Thanks, maybe?


    Quote Originally Posted by vic_orthdox View Post
    Just because you don't agree with him, and he has very parochial viewpoints, doesn't mean that he doesn't have the right to post here.
    Forgive me, but I can't help sensing a patronising tone in that post.

    Please explain how my views are "parochial"? (Yes I know the meaning of the word, but I can't see how you could come to that conclusion after a matter of a few posts on cricket).

    Bare in mind only Australian forumites have argued against my point. That pretty much says it all and proves my point does it not? (That Australian sportsmen/women and fans, in general, don't find "cockiness" to be cocky- not you or anyone in particular, but just the general feeling I get when watching interviews).


    Quote Originally Posted by Athlai View Post
    One word:

    Ganga
    Dunno about that comparison.

    I don't think anyone genuinely viewed Ganga as a long term player for the West Indies outside of Trinidad and Trinidad whereas Bell was scouted in his early 20's as a long-term England player in both formats of the game (this was before the invention of T-20).

    The fact both get starts and piss it away is very similar, but Bell seems in complete control before he gets out and the times I've seen Daren Ganga, he's looked pretty uneasy.

    Bell should have AT LEAST 4 more centuries to his name (nearer 6-8). That would be a century under every 7 innings and people would say what a ratio that is.
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  12. #102
    Cricket Web Staff Member Richard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by vic_orthdox View Post
    Bell doesn't trust his own game, it's how he gets out in front of the wicket so often forcing the pace.
    Seriously, how often does he do that? In Tests? In ODIs obviously he does it loads, but so does everyone - it goes with the territory. You have to try to force the pace in ODIs.

    Overwhelmingly Bell's most common method of dismissal is caught wicketkeeper or slip - same as most good-to-decent Test batsmen. However, he also gets bowled and lbw with enough regularity to suggest there's no one recurring fault there. I can't remember off the top of my head if he's got out caught in front of the wicket in the ring regularly against Australia, but he certainly hasn't against all teams.

    He just doesn't have - or hasn't so far demonstrated - the ability to play well enough for really long periods of time to do anything much of note against top-quality attacks. Though he's very capable of pasting weak attacks for lots and lots of runs. In a way he's similar to Collingwood, though Collingwood has recently shown he can do more than that. But both of them have such high averages because they can cash-in very well on the relatively rare occasions they do cash-in, which disguises the fact that they fail most of the time.
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  13. #103
    Cricket Web Staff Member Richard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rivera213 View Post
    The fact both get starts and piss it away is very similar, but Bell seems in complete control before he gets out and the times I've seen Daren Ganga, he's looked pretty uneasy.
    In England in 2007 perhaps, but not by-and-large. Ganga is every bit as capable as Bell of looking absolutely fine for a while then just playing a crazy shot.

    Devon Smith is another one, though he obviously does it far worse than Bell and even Ganga. Shiv Sundar Das is another eerily similar case from a little while back.

  14. #104
    U19 Vice-Captain rivera213's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Richard View Post
    In England in 2007 perhaps, but not by-and-large. Ganga is every bit as capable as Bell of looking absolutely fine for a while then just playing a crazy shot.

    Devon Smith is another one, though he obviously does it far worse than Bell and even Ganga. Shiv Sundar Das is another eerily similar case from a little while back.
    Yes by and large.

    Ganga's test record is only slightly worse than it should be. He's only really a 30 average test player IMHO. Sure, shot selection is part of being a quality batsman and Ganga seems to play loose shots earlier in his innings than Bell, but talent wise I wouldn't say he was a 45 average batsman like Bell is.

    Bell on the other hand has got to a half-century 19 times including 6 against Australia in 20 innings. 5 of those times he's been caught. I'm no saying he should've converted all 6 into centuries, but he should've 3 of them (2nd Innings @ Old Trafford in 2005; 1st Innings @ Adelaide Oval in 2006/07 and 2nd Innings @ Perth in 2006/07).

    All 3 times, he played well enough to deserve a century but then got out via poor shot selection.

    Talent wise he's way above Ganga and should be averaging 45 against all the countries at least in England.

  15. #105
    Hall of Fame Member Son Of Coco's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rivera213 View Post
    You could travel to every country in the world, you're still naive if you think sportsmen say publicly what they're really thinking.
    You could, but that'd mean not going to the same place on a package tour every year.

    So what are you if you think you know what I or Phillip Hughes am thinking? You've branded him cocky on the back of a statement that suggests he is because you think privately he's got tickets on himself.

    I think you have an overly grandiose perception of your own mental abilities just quietly.

    And I don't think the suggestion has been made that sportsmen always tell the truth, the question simply was how do you know what Hughes is like away from the cameras? You're making massive assumptions with nothing concrete to back them up. Unless we're supposed to believe that every sportsperson is a **** off camera...

    Or, you could be Andre Nel
    Last edited by Son Of Coco; 22-05-2009 at 05:31 PM.

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