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Thread: The unhealthy obsession with the Ashes

  1. #31
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  2. #32
    Englishman BoyBrumby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SJS View Post
    They may be obsessed with it but why is it "unhealthy" ?
    Not that I necessarily agree, but I imagine the perception is that England's focus being so trained onto recapturing the little urn it has become to the detriment of their performance in other test series.

    Of course the reverse could equally be true; the focus on the impending Ashes series could be a filip for performances in preceding series, with players determined to grab a squad/team spot through their performances in these other tests & series.
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  3. #33
    SJS
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steulen View Post
    Because it makes them lose Series they should win?

    That's a bit harsh perhaps, so let me elaborate. Every single time England play a Test match, regardless of the opposition, both the team itself, commentators, newspapers and fans (notable here on CW as well) put that Test into an Ashes perspective. "If we don't resolve our #3 conundrum, how can we win the Ashes?", and similar things like that, said during the first of a four-match series against West Indies, for instance.

    To me, this implies that England are not trying to beat the current opposition but are always building towards the Ashes. "We don't know who to play at #3 but we'll try a few things out for now because we're not playing Australia".
    Its sily to even think that they are not trying. Their team is in bad shape. They have changed skieppers three times in a year. They know they are in trouble - and that has nothing to do with beating Australia for that is still a distant dream.

    England are in trouble for they do not beat any team (I do not consider Bangladesh a test side) or looking like thay can beat any side with any degree of certainty. This cant feel right. The players have their careers, their reputations and their self respects at stake. It is silly (sorry for repeating the word but I am doing so to hold myself from using a stronger one) to assume that they do not try.

    Why cant we just accept that English cricket is in bad shape. They need lot of things happening to get it right. They need a stronger captain (who will be given a longer run), they need to be strong enough to tell themselves that players like Harmison are completely worthless and every year that goes with Harmison still playing for England (even if it is not every game) is a year lost in building a new attack, and above all they need a better pool to chose from.

    When Bopara got that hundred I was in England and discussing the game with my brother's English neighbour. My comment to him on Bopara was that it is unfortunate for England that he got that hundred (not a convincing one in my book) because now they are going to play him for years to come.

    England are just not good enough and are led by weak leaders.

  4. #34
    SJS
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    Quote Originally Posted by BoyBrumby View Post
    Not that I necessarily agree, but I imagine the perception is that England's focus being so trained onto recapturing the little urn it has become to the detriment of their performance in other test series.

    Of course the reverse could equally be true; the focus on the impending Ashes series could be a filip for performances in preceding series, with players determined to grab a squad/team spot through their performances in these other tests & series.
    You know Dale, the criticism that should be leveled at England (or anyone who talks of Ashes being "the contest" ) is that stop finding ridiculous excuses for your miserable performances.

    To believe this talk about the Ashes is to do exactly what is intended, overlook their inherent weaknesses.


  5. #35
    Global Moderator vic_orthdox's Avatar
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    Test teams look ahead all the time. It's the press who relate everything back to the Ashes, and I don't really think it makes that much of a difference. Playing devil's advocate, it could help put a time frame on when issues need to be sorted out by, a target for when they need a settled team.

    Outside of that, pretty much agree with SJS.

  6. #36
    Englishman BoyBrumby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SJS View Post
    You know Dale, the criticism that should be leveled at England (or anyone who talks of Ashes being "the contest" ) is that stop finding ridiculous excuses for your miserable performances.

    To believe this talk about the Ashes is to do exactly what is intended, overlook their inherent weaknesses.
    I'd agree pretty much completely. I don't really believe that our focus being on the Ashes is what has lead us to defeat, followed by defeat followed by impending defeat, it's that our previous success was built on foundations of sand, as I alluded to before.

    I think the simple truth is our current ranking (sixth in tests, if memory serves) is a pretty accurate gauge of where we are.

    Aside from the admirable Pietersen, I can't imagine too many other test nations ranked above us casting envious eyes towards our XI for the 5th test just finished.

  7. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by SJS View Post
    Its sily to even think that they are not trying. Their team is in bad shape. They have changed skieppers three times in a year. They know they are in trouble - and that has nothing to do with beating Australia for that is still a distant dream.

    England are in trouble for they do not beat any team (I do not consider Bangladesh a test side) or looking like thay can beat any side with any degree of certainty. This cant feel right. The players have their careers, their reputations and their self respects at stake. It is silly (sorry for repeating the word but I am doing so to hold myself from using a stronger one) to assume that they do not try.

    Why cant we just accept that English cricket is in bad shape. They need lot of things happening to get it right. They need a stronger captain (who will be given a longer run), they need to be strong enough to tell themselves that players like Harmison are completely worthless and every year that goes with Harmison still playing for England (even if it is not every game) is a year lost in building a new attack, and above all they need a better pool to chose from.

    When Bopara got that hundred I was in England and discussing the game with my brother's English neighbour. My comment to him on Bopara was that it is unfortunate for England that he got that hundred (not a convincing one in my book) because now they are going to play him for years to come.

    England are just not good enough and are led by weak leaders.
    England can be ordinary, whilst at the same time doing no favours by always going on about The Ashes.

    They're not mutually exclusive.

  8. #38
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    hasnt it been true like forever?.if england want to concentrate on winning one Ashes series in a decade at th neglect of other cricket endeavours then who are we to complain?.best of luck is all i can say.

  9. #39
    Eternal Optimist / Cricket Web Staff Member GIMH's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by vic_orthdox View Post
    Test teams look ahead all the time. It's the press who relate everything back to the Ashes, and I don't really think it makes that much of a difference. Playing devil's advocate, it could help put a time frame on when issues need to be sorted out by, a target for when they need a settled team.

    Outside of that, pretty much agree with SJS.
    This is pretty much what I think. And I don't think that the Ashes being our focus has ever really cost us any series, aside maybe from being too complacent after winning the Ashes in Pakistan, which was really more a case of ego, and of course some excellent cricket from Pakistan
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  10. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by GeraintIsMyHero View Post
    This is pretty much what I think. And I don't think that the Ashes being our focus has ever really cost us any series, aside maybe from being too complacent after winning the Ashes in Pakistan, which was really more a case of ego, and of course some excellent cricket from Pakistan
    Agreed that was the best cricket I have seen Pakistan play in this decade. I don't think England got complacent its just that they were caught out by an in form Pakistan side.

  11. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by SJS View Post
    You know Dale, the criticism that should be leveled at England (or anyone who talks of Ashes being "the contest" ) is that stop finding ridiculous excuses for your miserable performances.

    To believe this talk about the Ashes is to do exactly what is intended, overlook their inherent weaknesses.
    Certainly, yeah.

    I also despise the notion you alluded to before that players aren't trying because they're not playing Australia. You preferred not to use a stronger word, but i'm not quite the gentleman you are. So I'll say it's not silly, it's ****ing bollocks
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  12. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xuhaib View Post
    Agreed that was the best cricket I have seen Pakistan play in this decade. I don't think England got complacent its just that they were caught out by an in form Pakistan side.
    We certainly were caught out, but there was no excuse for the collapse in Multan

  13. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by GeraintIsMyHero View Post
    We certainly were caught out, but there was no excuse for the collapse in Multan
    I dunno. I watched every ball of that collapse and Pakistan would have blown away anyone that day, I reckon. My mates and I still talk about it and none of them are either Pakistan or England fans!
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    Yeah that was when Akhtar was around his best and Kaneria was a lot better than he is right now too. Despite him being a complete and utter cock, I have to say those 95mph inswinging yorkers Shoaib bowled were one of the great sights of cricket, pity his career turned out to be a cautionary tale to tell young players.

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    Quote Originally Posted by oitoitoi View Post
    Yeah that was when Akhtar was around his best and Kaneria was a lot better than he is right now too. Despite him being a complete and utter cock, I have to say those 95mph inswinging yorkers Shoaib bowled were one of the great sights of cricket, pity his career turned out to be a cautionary tale to tell young players.
    Hehehe.



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