Please assume the following.
Each of Johnson, Siddle, Hilfenhaus, Bollinger, Lee, Clark and McDonald are all fit and available to tour England.
Should Brett Lee be selected, and if so, which if any of those listed should miss out?
Edit: Please also assume Watson is fit (look, it's a stretch, but hey).
Last edited by Burgey; 10-03-2009 at 07:18 PM.
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Yeah, he should be included. Can a mod add him to the poll if possible please?
I said Hilfenhaus misses out, but if Clark's fit too then McDonald, Bollinger and Hilfenhaus will all miss out for me.
Originally Posted by zaremba
If Lee and Watson are both fit then McDonald and Bollinger miss out
No. FFS let's move on from guys like Lee, Symonds and Hayden. They've got more baggage than a shopaholic. Plus, Lee stunk the joint up in his most recent outings (India and Sth Africa). He could only dominate the club-standard batting lineup of the Kiwis. Yes, he's a top bloke, but let's move on.
They pick five quicks for the Ashes tour. They should be: Johnson, Siddle, Hilfenhorse, Clark and Macca.
Watson to provide support.
EDIT: My spies tell me Cockley is a very dark horse / smokey.
Last edited by howardj; 10-03-2009 at 08:21 PM.
I didn't think he bowled badly against SA itbt. Some spells were excellent but unrewarding, some were admittedly poor. But he's better than Hilfenhaus for sure. Hilfenhaus's decent bowling is bound to be overrated now because it was part of a great Australian victory. All things considered, Lee's the better bowler.
Hayden is gone already - so...
And Lee is a very different package to Symonds.
Obviously he was poor in India, and decidedly average against the South Africans - but his career averages against those 2 countries is 31 and 34 --> so it's not like he's ALWAYS struggled against them.
If he was genuinely "sick" as he claimed after coming back from India, then I'm all for giving him a shot at the Ashes. He also had a pretty bad foot problem.
In my estimation Johnson and Siddle both sit ahead of him in the fast bowling pecking order - but that third paceman slot is still up for grabs.
Hilfenhaus doesn't look up to scratch. He's behind Bollinger in my estimation.
5 quicks for the Ashes are:
Johnson, Siddle, Lee, Clark, Bollinger.
Macca could probably find himself on tour quite easily - he's the kind of bowler who will probably have success under English conditions - and is a better option than any of the spin bowlers in the country bar McGain. I'd take McDonald to cover the second spin option (ie - play an extra seamer who can keep it tight, build pressure and claims wickets at a reasonable rate - and who can bat a little bit instead of wasting a spot with a spinner who can't take wickets).
They'll probably take Hilfenhaus over Bollinger - but that'd be an error imo.
Are we hypothetically assuming Lee is back to his best?
IMO too much of a risk. Assuming he isn't back by the Pakistan tests or the 20/20s he wont have bowled a ball in 7 months, and was pretty poor in the months before that. I think he's a worthy inclusion if on top of his game, but it's unrealistic to expect him to regain such form after such a long break.
I'd go with Johnson, Siddle, Clark and two of Hilf/McDonald/McGain/Watson/North depending on the expected state of the pitch and the balance we want in the side.
qft.
Yes, because tbh even if Lee's not at peak, he'll still do better than Hilfenhaus is doing at the moment.
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Agree with this. Obviously there will be (and rightfully so) concerns over his match fitness, but if he's fit, he's arguably the best bowler in the team. People seem to forget that he did a brilliant job leading the attack for a 2 year period where he was also possibly the best fast bowler in the world. Sure he had a bad series in India, but it's worth noting he was quite obviously suffering from a virus in that final match, and IMO he never really recovered from that all the way up until he was ruled out due to a footy injury.
Also, I would have thought given the way he was treated over in India, that Clark is the bowler who's place is in far more danger than Lee.
For Team Australia, It is time to move on. He clearly was one of the reasons why Australia were losing.
If Lee's physically fit, match fit and has performances to prove he's back near his best I'd have him in the squad. Hilfenhaus should go well in English conditions, so I'd consider dropping Macca even though I think there should be a place for a bloke with hair that red. I'd have Johnson, Siddle, Clark, Lee and one of Hilfenhaus/Bollinger/Macca for the five pacemen. If Lee's not back to his best then I'd go for two of the last 3.
Last edited by Son Of Coco; 11-03-2009 at 01:16 AM.
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If we play a four man pace attack in England it would almost have to be Johnson/Siddle/Lee/Clark with Hilfenhaus and Watson as the back up. If Watson isnt fit enough to bowl its McDonald. We cant take a squad of 20 so its bad luck to Bollinger. Im pretty certain we'll only take one spinner and he will probably be McGain.
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