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Thread: 7 months away from the Ashes...

  1. #31
    U19 12th Man Penguinissimo's Avatar
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    Pup -

    The problem is that Vaughan is the best of a bad lot of alternatives. If we have a lot of very talented batsmen coming through the ranks, then most of the guys who have been in the closed shop of England's top order would have gone by the board a long time ago. The fact is that the Ashes is a series that we want to win, and don't care at all about developing people for the future - we have to pick the side, regardless of age or prospects, which has the best chance of winning that series.

    You're just advocating Bell because you know he's a pushover mentally and you'd love to see him coming out at first wicket down. If I supported any of England's opponents, I'd be paying the selectors to carry on picking him. I can't tell you how much I want Bell to be dropped, and have wanted him to be dropped for about the last 9 months. I was distraught when he scored that 199, because it's his annual "well, that shows he's got potential" innings.

    On the keeper, personally I think James Foster should have been in the side in India. He's a stunningly good keeper (better than Read in my opinion, since Read has issues with knowing where his first slip is), and more than competent with the bat. But since they've chosen to ignore him, they've got to stick with Prior for a year now.

    As I've said in a different thread, if Sidey bowls like he did in the 12 months after his recall, he should be a guaranteed pick ahead of Anderson. But an out-of-form or short-of-fitness Sidey is not something we speak about.

  2. #32
    Cricket Web Staff Member Richard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Uppercut View Post
    Flintoff doesn't though. Sidebottom won't if the ball doesn't swing. Noone else in England is a "really good bowler", South Africa are having real trouble with the Aussie tail and England's attack isn't a great deal better than SA's, if at all.
    I think it is. I think Flintoff and Sidebottom in some conditions are better than Ntini, Steyn and Morne Morkel. This includes the sort of conditions the SA trio are currently playing in, though not the sort of conditions you'd stereotypically expect to get in the UK.
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  3. #33
    Cricket Web Staff Member Richard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pup11 View Post
    Prior is another guy the English selectors need to make up their mind about, he is certainly proved that he can hold his own when compared to the other keeper-batsmen in UK in terms of batting and he is arguably the best batsmen among all keepers in England currently, but what they need to decide is are they willing to ignore Prior' shoddy glovework just for his batting and is his batting really that good for them to take this risk, it would be very harsh on the English bowlers if they work hard and make a Ponting, Hussey or Clarke edge one only to see Prior spill the chance and later seeing the same batsman going onto make most of that let off, i personally believe Read is the best wicket-keeper in England and he should be persisted with or they could go for Foster, but Read would be my choice.
    Prior's wicketkeeping in the two Tests in India was actually perfectly OK, can't remember him doing much wrong. If he can keep wicket like he did in those games, he's fine with the gloves. What I wonder is whether he will do, given how poor he was in the ODIs beforehand. I also retain plenty of doubts about Prior the batsman's ability against good-quality seam and swing (his play against spin is established beyond too much doubt) and hopefully the quality of bowling in WI will be good enough to test that.

    If Prior keeps wicket poorly in West Indies, he has to go, simple as, IMO. You cannot afford an inept wicketkeeper in Test cricket, you must have an adaquete one even if he's merely a decent rather than good batsman.

    Foster or Ambrose would still be my choice at the current time. Foster is a good wicketkeeper and Ambrose an adaquete one. Ambrose's batting has potential to be good IMO, and Foster's is certainly potentially that of a decent lower-middle-order player who can regularly hang-around. And frankly, someone who can average 30-31 by regularly staying in more than 10 deliveries is preferable to me to someone who makes the occasional century and regularly gets out for nothing.

    BTW, Read won't play for England again as has been said a faiiiiiiir few times TBH. He's an ICL player now. In Test cricket, for me that's an unadulterated good thing, though I'll say it again I still see no evidence that there's a single competent wicketkeeper (even if Prior was competent) who can bat as well as he can in one-day cricket and if he wasn't an ICL player he'd still be my first-choice in ODIs.
    Last edited by Richard; 23-12-2008 at 12:12 PM.

  4. #34
    Hall of Fame Member Furball's Avatar
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    Steve Davies, if he continues the form he showed with the blade last season.


  5. #35
    Cricket Web Staff Member Richard's Avatar
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    Even while I've many hopes for Davies in the long-term, I don't want to see him pitchforked into an Ashes as his debut series or ideally even his 2nd one.

    If we're going to have a wicketkeeper-batsman other than Prior between now and then, I'd like it to be Ambrose or Foster, both of whom have played before and have a good few seasons of First-Class cricket, with decent to good performance, behind them.

  6. #36
    Cricket Web: All-Time Legend Uppercut's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Richard View Post
    Even while I've many hopes for Davies in the long-term, I don't want to see him pitchforked into an Ashes as his debut series or ideally even his 2nd one.

    If we're going to have a wicketkeeper-batsman other than Prior between now and then, I'd like it to be Ambrose or Foster, both of whom have played before and have a good few seasons of First-Class cricket, with decent to good performance, behind them.
    Well if you accept that Prior can't currently be dropped for the WI tour, and you can't give someone a debut the series before or at an Ashes tour, does that mean Prior behind the stumps for them has now become the best-case scenario?
    Quote Originally Posted by zaremba View Post
    The Filth have comfortably the better bowling. But the Gash have the batting. Might be quite good to watch.

  7. #37
    Cricket Web Staff Member Richard's Avatar
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    For the Australia series? Nah, I hope that a bad series in WI will still see Prior dropped, but I just want the man replacing him to be Ambrose or Foster, not Davies. Not yet. Though maybe on the winter tour if Ambrose\Foster don't do that well against Aus.

    I wonder who the last England player to do well when facing Australia (a better-than-diabolical Australia - Tim Robinson doesn't count) right at the start of his career (be it debut or sophomore series) was? I might be missing someone but I can't think of anyone for quite some time.

  8. #38
    International Vice-Captain Jungle Jumbo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Richard View Post
    I wonder who the last England player to do well when facing Australia (a better-than-diabolical Australia - Tim Robinson doesn't count) right at the start of his career (be it debut or sophomore series) was? I might be missing someone but I can't think of anyone for quite some time.
    Pietersen?

  9. #39
    Eternal Optimist / Cricket Web Staff Member GIMH's Avatar
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  10. #40
    Hall of Fame Member Furball's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Richard View Post
    Even while I've many hopes for Davies in the long-term, I don't want to see him pitchforked into an Ashes as his debut series or ideally even his 2nd one.

    If we're going to have a wicketkeeper-batsman other than Prior between now and then, I'd like it to be Ambrose or Foster, both of whom have played before and have a good few seasons of First-Class cricket, with decent to good performance, behind them.
    Was referring more to your point about Read still being the best ODI keeper-batsman in the country.

  11. #41
    Cricket Web Staff Member Richard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jungle Jumbo View Post
    Pietersen?
    In his first 3 innings, yeah, but even he tailed-off after that and had Warne taken that catch his series would've been regarded as a pretty poor one. It's only Warne's catching, not Pietersen's batting, that made his series seem all that good.

  12. #42
    Cricket Web Staff Member Richard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GingerFurball View Post
    Was referring more to your point about Read still being the best ODI keeper-batsman in the country.
    O I C. Well, he still is IMO, last season was the first time Davies looked anything other than utterly hopeless at the shorter game. Obviously have hopes for him though, but would so much prefer it if he was batting three or four rather than opening. Can just see him being picked to open for England at this rate, and don't see him doing that with any more success than the last Worcestershire non-opener who was picked to open in ODIs.

  13. #43
    International Coach Pothas's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Richard View Post
    I wonder who the last England player to do well when facing Australia (a better-than-diabolical Australia - Tim Robinson doesn't count) right at the start of his career (be it debut or sophomore series) was? I might be missing someone but I can't think of anyone for quite some time.
    If you are ruling out Pietersen (unfairly) then it would have to be Graham Thorpe who started with a century. Had a poor second game but his performance over his first 3 tests has to be considered a success.

  14. #44
    Hall of Fame Member Jamee999's Avatar
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    I'm still hoping for:

    Trescothick
    Cook
    Strauss
    Pietersen*
    Collingwood
    Flintoff
    Prior+
    Broad/Swann
    Sidebottom
    Anderson
    Harmison
    Or something.

    RIP Fardin Qayyumi (AKA "cricket player"; "Bob"), 1/11/1990 - 15/4/2006

  15. #45
    U19 12th Man Penguinissimo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jamee999 View Post
    I'm still hoping for:

    Trescothick
    So are most English cricket fans, but we'll be waiting a loooooong time...

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