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Thread: Ashes 2009 - Predict Today, Laugh Tommorow!

  1. #46
    Quote Originally Posted by marc71178 View Post
    I'd say that's being generous to Collingwood...
    He averaged over 48 in the series, I don't see how that's being generous.
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  2. #47
    Englishman BoyBrumby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scaly piscine View Post
    He averaged over 48 in the series, I don't see how that's being generous.
    Scored a double ton on an absolute road and fair play to him for that, but never once got past 30 thereafter. He was our second most effective batsman, but there was a big drop off after KP.
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  3. #48
    Hall of Fame Member FaaipDeOiad's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by marc71178 View Post
    I'd question if he were actually the worst number 6 in the Ashes...
    Err, what? Flintoff scored two fifties in the Ashes. The Australian number 6 across the five tests scored two centuries, one for each of the batsmen who batted there, and Clarke and Symonds together scored 433 runs @ 72.17 batting at 6. Symonds 232 @ 58 and Clarke 201 @ 100.50. It wasn't even close, even given that Australia's bowlers were generally better.

    In general I'd say Flintoff is probably a better test batsman than Symonds, but Symonds is really a stop-gap player, selected on his fielding and bowling as much as his batting, and because of injuries and Martyn's retirement. Granted, if he was a long term selection at 6 and didn't improve dramatically he'd probably be worse than Flintoff, but I think Australia could get away with it given the strength of the batsmen below him. Clarke is quite obviously a much better test batsman than Flintoff, so I assume you're talking only about Symonds.

    Flintoff simply hasn't been good enough to be a test number 6. An average of 32 from more than 60 tests is horrible for a top order batsman, especially when he's the last recognised batsman in the order. He'd be a pretty good number 7, but it's obvious IMO that the current setup leaves England very weak from 6 and below, and that was a major weakness in the recent series.
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  4. #49
    Virat Kohli (c) Jono's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BoyBrumby View Post
    TBF it was a Pakistan without Ahktar & (until the 4th test) Asif and Kaneria was having an ordinary series. With Asif we were getting our arses handed to us until you-know-what happened.
    Good point. I remember a Pakistani forum member labelling it one of the worst bowling line-ups Pakistan ever put out, so I think runs against them is hardly a massive achievement.
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  5. #50
    Hall of Fame Member FaaipDeOiad's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BoyBrumby View Post
    TBF it was a Pakistan without Ahktar & (until the 4th test) Asif and Kaneria was having an ordinary series. With Asif we were getting our arses handed to us until you-know-what happened.
    Yeah, I actually forgot that Asif only played one test in that series. I thought it was Asif and Gul throughout.

  6. #51
    Englishman BoyBrumby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FaaipDeOiad View Post
    Err, what? Flintoff scored two fifties in the Ashes. The Australian number 6 across the five tests scored two centuries, one for each of the batsmen who batted there, and Clarke and Symonds together scored 433 runs @ 72.17 batting at 6. Symonds 232 @ 58 and Clarke 201 @ 100.50. It wasn't even close, even given that Australia's bowlers were generally better.

    In general I'd say Flintoff is probably a better test batsman than Symonds, but Symonds is really a stop-gap player, selected on his fielding and bowling as much as his batting, and because of injuries and Martyn's retirement. Granted, if he was a long term selection at 6 and didn't improve dramatically he'd probably be worse than Flintoff, but I think Australia could get away with it given the strength of the batsmen below him. Clarke is quite obviously a much better test batsman than Flintoff, so I assume you're talking only about Symonds.

    Flintoff simply hasn't been good enough to be a test number 6. An average of 32 from more than 60 tests is horrible for a top order batsman, especially when he's the last recognised batsman in the order. He'd be a pretty good number 7, but it's obvious IMO that the current setup leaves England very weak from 6 and below, and that was a major weakness in the recent series.
    I think in The Ashes itself you're absolutely right, however in fairness to Marc I think he meant Flintoff wasn't the worst batsman to play at number six in The Ashes generally speaking. You said

    Quote Originally Posted by FaaipDeOiad
    Flintoff's probably the worst number 6 in test cricket outside of Bangladesh, or at least close
    & I'd guess most people would take Flintoff as a test batsman over Symonds most of the time.

    As I said tho, there's no doubt that Australia's number 6 was more effective than than ours in the series just past.

  7. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by Craig View Post
    And there is no reason to suggest some Australia's replacement players will be great successes.

    Why not? I've grown accustomed to expecting gun replacements from Australia.. I think Jacques has played an ODI already, and looked better than any England ODI batsman for a long time.. Brad Hodge his 200 against South Africa and was deemed to be not good enough.. We seem to be taking Hussey for granted, he hasn't been playing for a long time at all, Clarke has had his blips, but looks to be a class act, and Stuart Clark looks like he's been bowling against the very best for ten years.. Australia produce the best newcomers, and thats why they are the best team, I have little reason to doubt they will continue producing the best
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