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Thread: ***Official*** 3rd Test at the WACA

  1. #211
    Quote Originally Posted by grecian
    Oh stop arguing with him Greg, his earlier post was proven to be almost utterly inaccurate, so he blusters with his normal unproven nonsense about "bunsens".

    "he struggles to genuinely take wickets", what does that mean exactly?

    As for Plunkett and Mahmoods average heading towards 30, only if there next 20 tests were against Bangladesh and Zimbabwe

    Nobody proved anything and it's pretty obvious the Test he got a 5-fer in against SL and England lost (skittled by Murali) was a bunsen, but that would get in the way of your soundbite.

    Panesar struggles to genuinely take wickets - what I mean is if you just told him to go and bowl a side out or break a partnership with good bowling he'd struggle more than someone else (dumb batting excepted) because he bowls a passive style. He's very much a stock bowler as opposed to a strike bowler. I don't believe he's good enough yet to be both.
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  2. #212
    State Vice-Captain mavric41's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by grecian
    As for Plunkett and Mahmoods average heading towards 30, only if there next 20 tests were against Bangladesh and Zimbabwe
    Zimbabwe maybe, but Bangladesh are in form!!!
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  3. #213
    Hall of Fame Member grecian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scaly piscine
    Nobody proved anything and it's pretty obvious the Test he got a 5-fer in against SL and England lost (skittled by Murali) was a bunsen, but that would get in the way of your soundbite.

    Panesar struggles to genuinely take wickets - what I mean is if you just told him to go and bowl a side out or break a partnership with good bowling he'd struggle more than someone else (dumb batting excepted) because he bowls a passive style. He's very much a stock bowler as opposed to a strike bowler. I don't believe he's good enough yet to be both.
    The nonsense comment was about Panesar picking up wickets stumped and on the boundary, which you were corrected on, you didn't acknowledge it though. Funny that.

    No, I will not admit your soundbite about that test match, Murali is the most destructive spinner of all time, just because he bowls out a team on a pitch that has worn more then the one that monty bowled on, does not make it a bunsen imo. It assisted spin and Panesar worked with it rather effectively I thought. He outbowled kaneira in the first two pakistan matches in this country on pitches that didn't assist whatsoever, but I forget you say that was all down to bad shots or dumb batting, also danish isn't the bowler he was, odd that.

    So three different arguments to ignore good bowling, hmmm.

    Yet as Greg said you may turn out correct about Panesar, but please stop giving your nonsensical theoretical averages of what people would of bowled as evidence. Its conjecture and as the great Brian Clough said about such drivel "if my auntie had balls she'd be my uncle", futile.
    Last edited by grecian; 08-12-2006 at 06:43 PM.
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  4. #214
    International Vice-Captain Linda's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steulen
    So you want Voges then.
    Haha, good pick up.

    Look, ideally it'd be someone younger, like Marsh (Im on the bandwagon well and truly) or Cosgrove, I love a risky selection. Whoever they had picked wouldnt have had to deal with much pressure with the likelihood that Watson will come back for Boxing Day anyway. But Voges will do in my book, mostly because Im bias though.

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  5. #215
    International Vice-Captain aussie tragic's Avatar
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    I notice that a few people have mentioned Marsh as a possible Test star one day, with some even stating he should have called up before Voges. As I've never seen him play, can someone explain why Marsh is being rated so highly

    btw, I looked up his FC record and he's played 36 games and only averages 31, with only 3 centuries and a HS of 119 ????
    Last edited by aussie tragic; 09-12-2006 at 12:28 AM.

  6. #216
    Hall of Fame Member FaaipDeOiad's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by aussie tragic
    I notice that a few people have mentioned Marsh as a possible Test star one day, with some even stating he should have called up before Voges. As I've never seen him play, can someone explain why Marsh is being rated so highly

    btw, I looked up his FC record and he's played 36 games and only averages 31, with only 3 centuries and a HS of 119 ????
    The main reason is just that he looks really, really good. He's got a great technique, plays all the shots and looks capable in both forms of the game. Steve Waugh said he was the best young batsman he'd ever seen, or something of the sort, and that was a number of years ago.

    He's underachieved in first class cricket so far, but he's shown a few signs recently that he's starting to get it right. He's an unknown quantity though, so his reputation is really just based on potential, a bit like Michael Clarke's was before he got picked.
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  7. #217
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    Quote Originally Posted by FaaipDeOiad
    The main reason is just that he looks really, really good. He's got a great technique, plays all the shots and looks capable in both forms of the game. Steve Waugh said he was the best young batsman he'd ever seen, or something of the sort, and that was a number of years ago.

    He's underachieved in first class cricket so far, but he's shown a few signs recently that he's starting to get it right. He's an unknown quantity though, so his reputation is really just based on potential, a bit like Michael Clarke's was before he got picked.
    Having some ex-cricketer/respected coach saying that they were the "best young cricketer they have ever seen" seems to be the bare minimum required these days...

    Sarwan, Clarke, Bell, Cook, Marsh... (I'm sure Jacques must be there as well)

  8. #218
    Hall of Fame Member FaaipDeOiad's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by greg
    Having some ex-cricketer/respected coach saying that they were the "best young cricketer they have ever seen" seems to be the bare minimum required these days...

    Sarwan, Clarke, Bell, Cook, Marsh... (I'm sure Jacques must be there as well)
    I don't recall anyone saying that about Clarke. He certainly got praise from plenty of people as a young player, but not quite on that scale, at least not from what I've heard. The cricketers which stand out in recent memory as getting huge praise when quite young in Australia are Johnson (once in a generation bowler from Lillee), Ponting (best teenage batsman ever or something from Marsh), and then Marsh. Jaques actually appeared on the scene from almost nowhere I think. Most of his initial success came in England, and the NSW stuff came later on, and he didn't really cement his spot until his mid 20s.

    But yeah, it doesn't necessarily mean a great deal. All of those cricketers you mentioned turned out to be pretty good, mind you, so I don't think it's meaningless when some unknown 16 year old gets big praise from someone who knows the game, but obviously it doesn't necessarily mean they'll be a great. I rate Marsh very highly and think he could turn out to be a fine batsman, but he's not ready for international cricket yet.

  9. #219
    Hall of Fame Member aussie's Avatar
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    I guess i can live with Symonds being picked for 1 test with the hope that Watson will return for the MCG test, but its total nonsense that Hodge has not been picked, by all reports he isn't all that injured and by the 3rd test he should be fine...

  10. #220
    Quote Originally Posted by grecian
    The nonsense comment was about Panesar picking up wickets stumped and on the boundary, which you were corrected on, you didn't acknowledge it though. Funny that.

    No, I will not admit your soundbite about that test match, Murali is the most destructive spinner of all time, just because he bowls out a team on a pitch that has worn more then the one that monty bowled on, does not make it a bunsen imo. It assisted spin and Panesar worked with it rather effectively I thought. He outbowled kaneira in the first two pakistan matches in this country on pitches that didn't assist whatsoever, but I forget you say that was all down to bad shots or dumb batting, also danish isn't the bowler he was, odd that.

    So three different arguments to ignore good bowling, hmmm.

    Yet as Greg said you may turn out correct about Panesar, but please stop giving your nonsensical theoretical averages of what people would of bowled as evidence. Its conjecture and as the great Brian Clough said about such drivel "if my auntie had balls she'd be my uncle", futile.
    It was so obviously a bunsen, Jayasuriya was very difficult to play on it and he hardly puts anything on the ball. Panesar benefitted hugely from Harmison rattling the Pakistan batsmen in one of the Tests, he also picked up some lucky/freak wickets as well in that same Test (a player overbalancing by millimetres past/on the line for no real reason and getting stumped, Inzi hitting the ball onto his foot and getting caught and so on). Danish Kaneira has been in a bad patch for a while now and he was played a lot better by England than Panesar was played by Pakistan.

  11. #221
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    I think the remaining advocates of the correctness of Giles being selected are going to be disappearing completely once this article gets a wider showing...

  12. #222
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scaly piscine
    It was so obviously a bunsen, Jayasuriya was very difficult to play on it and he hardly puts anything on the ball. Panesar benefitted hugely from Harmison rattling the Pakistan batsmen in one of the Tests, he also picked up some lucky/freak wickets as well in that same Test (a player overbalancing by millimetres past/on the line for no real reason and getting stumped, Inzi hitting the ball onto his foot and getting caught and so on). Danish Kaneira has been in a bad patch for a while now and he was played a lot better by England than Panesar was played by Pakistan.
    Hang on a minute - just checked that scorecard to refresh my memory.

    These were Montys figures: 5-3-3-0 (first innings) and 37-13-78-5 (second innings)
    These were Muralis figures: 31-10-62-3 (first innings) and 30-10-70-8 (second innings)

    What exactly are you complaining about here? Whatever the reason for England's defeat (basically they threw the game away when it was their's for the taking in the first innings) they certainly didn't lose because Monty took too long bowling Sri Lanka out on a 'bunsen'. More like the pace bowlers were ineffective and couldn't keep it tight at the other end whereas SL had the option of Jaysuriya to keep an end bottled up and give Murali the time to work his magic, on an older pitch.

    Basically those figures tell the tale of a pitch that started out as a seamers paradise, and gradually deteriorated until it became hugely favourable for the spinners by the end. Not favorable for the spinners in the first two innings, pretty favorable for them in the latter two - but obviously more so in the last England innings compared to the last SLankan one.
    Last edited by greg; 09-12-2006 at 12:07 PM.

  13. #223
    Hall of Fame Member grecian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scaly piscine
    Danish Kaneira has been in a bad patch for a while now and he was played a lot better by England than Panesar was played by Pakistan.
    Yes, England well known for playing spin well

  14. #224
    Cricket Spectator dileep.vaka's Avatar
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    Can some one invite me 4 user competitions....
    my id is spam@dileep.com
    Last edited by dileep.vaka; 09-12-2006 at 12:06 PM.

  15. #225
    Hall of Fame Member TT Boy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by greg
    I think the remaining advocates of the correctness of Giles being selected are going to be disappearing completely once this article gets a wider showing...
    Sounds like a true professional, eats in fast food outlets and drinks to forget.
    Last edited by TT Boy; 09-12-2006 at 12:07 PM.

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