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Thread: Ponting faces Ashes ban

  1. #46
    Cricket Web: All-Time Legend Mister Wright's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BoyBrumby
    Haven't seen it yet. Benson again?
    Not sure TBH.
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  2. #47
    International Captain Slow Love™'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by andyc
    Cause you clearly didn't search for 'Tendulkar & Ponting Crying for each other.'
    LOL, no - I have to brush up on my search terms, clearly. What a bizarre title that was.


    Quote Originally Posted by Jono
    What you don't see on that video is Ponting describing the decision to Benson's face as 'a disgrace'. I reckon he was let off because, as Faaip mentioned, its a unique scenario. Because correct me if I'm wrong, but if a fielding captain tells an umpire his decision is a disgrace in regular circumstances (lbw not given, wide called incorrectly etc.) you'd be punished.
    Actually I wondered if it was selectively edited, mainly because the reactions on the forum seemed so out of proportion to what I saw, but it didn't seem particularly cut or anything so I took it at face value. Anyhow, yeah, you are completely right if that's what he said. And I can't see the fact that it's a unique scenario being mitigating when you can still be punished for reacting to an umpire's decision that is clearly mistaken - it's a bit beside the point.

    Ponting is very, very fortunate. A very poor call by the PTB, particularly considering he was absolutely on notice.
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  3. #48
    Cricket Web Staff Member Burgey's Avatar
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    But where does it end if an umpire looks at the big screen and changes his mind?

    If an umpire walks up to Ponting or any other captain and tells him he's changing his decision, but doesn't say why, then it's understandable when that captain is exasperated by the decision (or both of them). Copping bad decisions is part of the game and he needs to accept that better than he does, however, a dangreous precedent is set when an umpire has a squizz at the big screen then calls a batsman back.

    What happens if he gives a batsman not out, looks at the screen then sees he did hit the ball, does he then give him out? Do you call Martyn back 3 times in the '05 Ashes series when he plainly edged balls into his pads but was given out lbw? Where do you draw the line?

    Either use technology or don't. The rule-makers cannot have it both ways. The umpires should not be operating in a vacuum. I went to the Supertest and got the proverbials with everything being referred, but the more I think about it, maybe the technology should be used. Tendulkar wasn't out and the decision would have been made by the 3rd umpire - no dissent from anyone and they just would have gotten on with the game.

    There can only be confusion if the curent rules about only referring run outs and stumpings stay in, but umpires look up and change their minds about a catch or an lbw after seeing a big-screen replay. They must either not show the replays at the ground or use the third umpire to make decisions on all facets of the game. It may slow things down but they will get things right more often than not. That's especially important in the curent era where players are fighting for their careers as profesional players.

    I'm not excusing Ponting's behaviour in this incident or generally, but I don't think you could say that his behaviour this time around was dissent. The umpire saw fit to approach him to explain his decision and initiated the conversation with Ponting, who responded to the umpire, who did not see fit to report him, nor did the match referee. There would be something wrong with Ponting were he not exasperated by an umpire changing his mind apparently by looking at a replay whilst on the ground. As Faap said, it's a unique situation and was probably dealt with as best it could be by all concerned.

    The slow trudge off and the shake of the head by the disappointed batsman doesn't help the situation either - it gives everyone in the crowd watching, those at home and the umpires the suggestion that something was wrong with the decision - it's as much dissent as anything that is said by a player to an umpire.
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  4. #49
    International Captain Slow Love™'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Burgey
    But where does it end if an umpire looks at the big screen and changes his mind?

    If an umpire walks up to Ponting or any other captain and tells him he's changing his decision, but doesn't say why, then it's understandable when that captain is exasperated by the decision (or both of them). Copping bad decisions is part of the game and he needs to accept that better than he does, however, a dangreous precedent is set when an umpire has a squizz at the big screen then calls a batsman back.

    What happens if he gives a batsman not out, looks at the screen then sees he did hit the ball, does he then give him out? Do you call Martyn back 3 times in the '05 Ashes series when he plainly edged balls into his pads but was given out lbw? Where do you draw the line?

    Either use technology or don't. The rule-makers cannot have it both ways. The umpires should not be operating in a vacuum. I went to the Supertest and got the proverbials with everything being referred, but the more I think about it, maybe the technology should be used. Tendulkar wasn't out and the decision would have been made by the 3rd umpire - no dissent from anyone and they just would have gotten on with the game.

    There can only be confusion if the curent rules about only referring run outs and stumpings stay in, but umpires look up and change their minds about a catch or an lbw after seeing a big-screen replay. They must either not show the replays at the ground or use the third umpire to make decisions on all facets of the game. It may slow things down but they will get things right more often than not. That's especially important in the curent era where players are fighting for their careers as profesional players.

    I'm not excusing Ponting's behaviour in this incident or generally, but I don't think you could say that his behaviour this time around was dissent. The umpire saw fit to approach him to explain his decision and initiated the conversation with Ponting, who responded to the umpire, who did not see fit to report him, nor did the match referee. There would be something wrong with Ponting were he not exasperated by an umpire changing his mind apparently by looking at a replay whilst on the ground. As Faap said, it's a unique situation and was probably dealt with as best it could be by all concerned.

    The slow trudge off and the shake of the head by the disappointed batsman doesn't help the situation either - it gives everyone in the crowd watching, those at home and the umpires the suggestion that something was wrong with the decision - it's as much dissent as anything that is said by a player to an umpire.
    I basically agree with you as to a better implementation of technology in the game.

    However, I still can't fathom how, if Ponting said to the umpire flat-out to his face that the decision was a disgrace, that it isn't dissent. If that's not dissent, then what is?

    It really has nothing to do with the umpire making a bad decision, even a deplorable decision. I personally don't mind a fair degree of leniency to a player (or captain) shaking their head, tut-tutting to other players, even looking upwards in disbelief when an umpire makes a shocker. We've all felt that way, and it's been an aspect of the sport since god knows when.

    I would suggest that the reason he wasn't reported was probably because the umpire in question felt he was on somewhat shaky ground already, and didn't want to make a bigger fuss out of what had happened then there already was (it's possible the match referee felt the same way). OK, so be it. But if Ponting genuinely looked at the guy and called the decision a disgrace, he clearly was guilty of dissent - whether they decide to charge him or not. Hell, if it was a player whose conduct had been excellent up to that point, you might give the guy some leeway, but a player with Ponting's recent record? Again, he was very, very lucky.


  5. #50
    Cricket Web Staff Member Burgey's Avatar
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    Yep, fair points you raise. Must say I haven't seen footage of him saying it was a disgrace, but if he did, then you're right. He does need to settle down anyway.

  6. #51
    Hall of Fame Member FaaipDeOiad's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BoyBrumby
    Brave call from Benson for me. On whose say so did he reverse the decision (which was an absolute shocker TBF)? Did the third ump have a word or did Benson just see the big screen footage at the ground?
    I didn't see him look too closely at the big screen, so I think he reversed it on the basis of Tendulkar's reaction, basically. I think that's what Ponting was annoyed about for the most part, and what makes it different from, say, Symonds being called back by Atapattu after he was given LBW despite a huge edge.

    Basically, Tendulkar played and missed and was caught off the shoulder and given out. He stood around and gaped and shook his head and made his way away from the wicket very slowly, and basically looked like he thought it was a shocker of a decision, which it was. Benson realised from Tendulkar and the crowd and so on that he'd made a blunder and called him back. That's fine, because it was the correct decision, but it does raise some questions about the confidence that the umpire has in his calls. It's not as though the other umpire walked over and said it wasn't out, or the fielding team admitted it didn't carry or something. When you're overturning decisions because of the batsman's reaction, it's an unfortunate can of worms.
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  7. #52
    Virat Kohli (c) Jono's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Clapo
    I'm assuming you saw/heard this on Fox Sports?? Just seems to be no mention of it anywhere else ??
    Yep. Tony Greig mentioned it when talking about the replays, it clearly showed Ponting saying those words.
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  8. #53
    Hall of Fame Member Johnners's Avatar
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    Perhaps it would be easier to just abolish the law that say's an umpire can reverse his decision? This way the umpires can still look at the replays and look like fools, yet they cannot reverse their decision, thus hopefully avoiding player/umpire confrontations.
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  9. #54
    Global Moderator vic_orthdox's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Clapo
    Perhaps it would be easier to just abolish the law that say's an umpire can reverse his decision? This way the umpires can still look at the replays and look like fools, yet they cannot reverse their decision, thus hopefully avoiding player/umpire confrontations.
    Putting umpire - fielding captain confrontations in front of making the right decision?

    No way.

  10. #55
    Englishman BoyBrumby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FaaipDeOiad
    I didn't see him look too closely at the big screen, so I think he reversed it on the basis of Tendulkar's reaction, basically. I think that's what Ponting was annoyed about for the most part, and what makes it different from, say, Symonds being called back by Atapattu after he was given LBW despite a huge edge.

    Basically, Tendulkar played and missed and was caught off the shoulder and given out. He stood around and gaped and shook his head and made his way away from the wicket very slowly, and basically looked like he thought it was a shocker of a decision, which it was. Benson realised from Tendulkar and the crowd and so on that he'd made a blunder and called him back. That's fine, because it was the correct decision, but it does raise some questions about the confidence that the umpire has in his calls. It's not as though the other umpire walked over and said it wasn't out, or the fielding team admitted it didn't carry or something. When you're overturning decisions because of the batsman's reaction, it's an unfortunate can of worms.
    That's my concern in a nutshell. If the course of events are as you descrice them Benson may've made the correct decision as to the catch (or non-catch), but he made it for absolutely the wrong reason if he reversed his call just on the strength of Sachin's reaction to his initial decision.
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  11. #56
    Hall of Fame Member Johnners's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by vic_orthdox
    Putting umpire - fielding captain confrontations in front of making the right decision?

    No way.
    By that same token though, we cannot have umpires reversing their decisions because of player reactions.

    Whilst i agree the right decision needs to be made, the process to make sure it's made needs to be looked at. If benson did indeed go by tendulkars reaction, or sneaked a look at the replay, he set a dangerous precedent. If he felt the wrong decision was made, the 3rd umpire should've been brought into use.

  12. #57
    The Wheel is Forever silentstriker's Avatar
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    Well, it also might have had to do something with the fact that Sachin is rarely animated on the field.

    However, I agree with you. It would open up a can of worms if the umpires based it on the batsman's reaction. If its reversed, it should be because another umpire saw something.
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  13. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by Slow Love™
    However, I still can't fathom how, if Ponting said to the umpire flat-out to his face that the decision was a disgrace, that it isn't dissent.
    Probably because when Ponting saw that the right decision had been made in the end, he went up to umpire Benson and complimented the decision. This was confirmed by the other on field umpire, Asad Rauf.

  14. #59
    Virat Kohli (c) Jono's Avatar
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    Is that a good source?

    If that's true;
    a) Can't understand why Cricinfo wouldn't have had that on their site
    b) Ponting must put on an angry face and mouth "disgrace" when he's happy.

    I know it says he was "angry at first" but Jeez, very weird.

  15. #60
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    Have to say I don't think that rings true.
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