England vs Australia - Who has the best depth?

[Richard]

Originally Posted by aussie

Lets see..

ENGLAND:

OPENERS:

1. Trescothick
2. Strauss
3. Cook

MIDDLE-ORDER:

1. Vaughan
2. Pietersen
3. Collingwood
4. Bell
5. Shah
6. Joyce
7. Key

ALL-ROUNDERS:

1. Flintoff

WICKET-KEEPERS

1. G Jones
2. Read
3. Prior

FAST-BOWLERS:

1. Harmison
2. Hoggard
3. S Jones
4. Anderson
5. Tremlett
6. Plunkett
7. Mahmood
8. Harrison

SPINNERS:

1. Giles
2. Panesar
3. Udal
4. Batty
5. Swann



AUSTRALIA:

OPENERS:

1. Langer
2. Hayden
3. Jaques
4. M Hussey

MIDDLE-ORDER:

1. Ponting
2. Martyn
3. M Hussey
4. Clarke
5. Hodge
6. Katich
7. Cosgrove
8. D Hussey
9. Marsh

ALL-ROUNDERS:

1. Watson
2. Symonds
3. Henriques

WICKET-KEEPERS:

1. Gilchrist
2. Haddin
3. Hartley

FAST-BOWLERS:

1. McGrath
2. Lee
3. Gillespie
4. Clark
5. Tait
6. Kasprowicz
7. Bracken
8. Dorey

SPINNERS:

1. Warne
2. MacGill
3. Cullen
4. Bailey
5. Casson

Well i'd say Australia slightly at the moment

Please - don't suggest the like of Cullen, Bailey, Casson, Dorey, Tait, Marsh, Batty, Panesar, Tremlett, Plunkett, Mahmood, Harrison, Prior and Henriques are remotely close to Test-class and in the slightest likely to have any impact on the series.
And PLEASE move Robert Key from the middle-order batsmen to the openers!!!!!

[Richard]

Originally Posted by FaaipDeOiad

Regarding the bowling, Engalnd's severe lack of spin depth is a worry. They have a passable option in Giles, and a fair amount of crap behind him.

Not really - there's not a huge difference between Giles and Udal and I'd back both on a typical SCG pitch.

[Richard]

Originally Posted by steds

About the seamers, there doesn't seem to be alot of depth in either. After Flintoff, Harmison, Inbred, Jones, and Anderson, the quality of England's seamers drops off quite dramatically, but as does Australia's when they reach Tait & co.

The quality of England's seamers drops off once you reach Harmison.

[Richard]

Originally Posted by RoyForPM

I dont think Aussie bowling drops off:
Warne
Lee
McGrath
Bracken
MacGill
Kaspa
Gillespie
Clark
Tait
Dorey
Have all had successful careers and have all had their Aussie Debuts in test or one-day

Because of course Dorey, Tait, Lee, MacGill and Bracken have all been so successful in Tests...?

[FaaipDeOiad]

Originally Posted by Richard

Please - don't suggest the like of Cullen, Bailey, Casson, Dorey, Tait, Marsh, Batty, Panesar, Tremlett, Plunkett, Mahmood, Harrison, Prior and Henriques are remotely close to Test-class and in the slightest likely to have any impact on the series.
And PLEASE move Robert Key from the middle-order batsmen to the openers!!!!!

How on earth can you say that, say, Marsh isn't test class? Have you ever even seen him play? How about Henriques? Or are you just talking crap as usual?

I'd agree that none of them are likely to have an impact on the series, but that's not really what "depth" means, is it?

[andyc]

Originally Posted by Richard

Because of course Dorey, Tait, Lee, MacGill and Bracken have all been so successful in Tests...?

Erm... how have Lee and MacGill not been successful in tests?

[andyc]

Originally Posted by Richard

The quality of England's seamers drops off once you reach Harmison.

So you don't rate Hoggard, Jones or Flintoff, but you do rate Harmison?

[FaaipDeOiad]

Originally Posted by Richard

Because of course Dorey, Tait, Lee, MacGill and Bracken have all been so successful in Tests...?

Given that MacGill has been more "successful" in tests than any spinner England has produced in the last few decades, I'd say yes. Lee hasn't had a great career, but his average has dropped almost two whole runs since the start of the Australian summer, in which time he's taken 36 wickets @ 24.50, so he's certainly doing alright recently.

[FaaipDeOiad]

Originally Posted by Richard

Not really - there's not a huge difference between Giles and Udal and I'd back both on a typical SCG pitch.

I'd be floored if Giles ever had any significant success against Australia, simple as that. I'd back almost any spinner in the world to do better against Australia, in fact. Even Nicky Boje has been more threatening.

[GIMH]

It does seem like it's done with just a hint of bias to me, Aussie

eg you've put Mike Hussey in both the openers and middle order sections for Aus, but haven't done the same for Vaughan, who has opened plenty of times.

When discussing depth, quality is essential, none of Australia's "all rounders" come anywhere close to Flintoff in terms of being an all rounder, and Symonds doesn't convince me as a Test bowler anyhow, we might as well put Collingwood, Bell and Giles in the all-rounder section.

Still, there is no doubt that Aus have the better batting depth, but I think putting a decent bowling attack at all is a worry for them at the minute, never mind worrying about depth

Mighty England, on the other hand, go and win a Test in India missing 60% of our world feared bowling attack.

lol

[FaaipDeOiad]

Originally Posted by steds

I'm pretty confident that Panesar is as good as Cullen, Bailey and Casson. Keedy and Swann are also good, but Keedy's getting on a bit (he's still ~6 years younger than Udal, mind ) and Swann doesn't seem to feature in mad Dunc's plans.

I haven't seen Panesar bowl, so I can't really comment, but he hasn't exactly set the world alight in the tests in India. Bailey and Casson had very good seasons just recently, so they're major prospects. Both are obviously wristspinners, which helps.

Originally Posted by steds

About the seamers, there doesn't seem to be alot of depth in either. After Flintoff, Harmison, Inbred, Jones, and Anderson, the quality of England's seamers drops off quite dramatically, but as does Australia's when they reach Tait & co.

I'd agree with that. You'd have to say Gillespie is a bigger chance to return to test cricket successfully than any seamer outside of England's first XI, but beyond that both teams have some potential but nobody really dominating.

[howardj]

Originally Posted by aussie

MIDDLE-ORDER:

8. D Hussey

If you're putting him in there, it's case closed - we don't have much depth!

[FaaipDeOiad]

Originally Posted by howardj

If you're putting him in there, it's case closed - we don't have much depth!

He's a good one day player in my opinion, and if we had a bad enough run of injuries I could maybe see him as an outside shot at the world cup squad. Obviously not test material though.

[dontcloseyoureyes]

On David Hussey:

He needs to work on his concentration if he wants to play test cricket for Australia. The times I've seen him bat, he looks every bit as good as his brother and many others in line for test selection, but just when you think "yep, he's gonna go big here" he goes and chips one to the inner ring or misses a straight one. He's probably a little old to actually give himself a decent run, and unless there's a magical turn-around in his batting over the next Pura Cup season I can't seeing him cracking it. But I definately think he has the makings of a class batsmen, I just think he needs to get his head in order.

[chris.hinton]

The Aussies should start blooding Younger players for the next ashes series Clarke, Lee and Tait. Ponting, Gilcrist will all be around in the next ashes series in England will the others? i think it time to start now for them

Who Dorey?