[Richard]

Originally Posted by aussie

What are you saying that taking 41 wickets in 7 test at the SCG is saying he did little after his first test?, are you mad. I have seen all of his SCG test & the only match he was outright POOR was vs India 2004, also in the ashes test aslo he was average but not poor.

41 wickets at 29, on a square where normally a decent fingerspinner would be taking wickets at 25s or so isn't that good. He certainly was poor, incidentally, in the Fifth Test in 2002\03.

Secondly how in gods glorious name did MacGill have just 1 good test betwen this period, fortunately i saw all these test so let me break it down, since it quite obvious that he had more than just 1 good test

1. SCG 2001 vs WI, he had a pretty good match
2. SCG 2002 vs SA, another good test
3. MCG 2002 vs Eng, good test
4. Bridgetown 2003 vs WI, excellent test
5. Galle 2004 vs SRI, imo i didn't think think he was bad in this game, he may have ran throught the tail in the 2nd innings, but in the 1st innings he supported Warne fairly well.

So i got 5 test out of 16 where he wasn't poor

The only good game was Bridgetown 2003.
He certainly wasn't remotely good in either The MCG 2002\03 or Galle 2003\04. Both games he took wickets at a poor average without having chances missed.
Yes, his figures in the 2001\02 and 2002\03 SCG games aren't too bad, but as far as I'm concerned they told little story.

Finally so what if he dismissed a lot of tailenders in these 3 test, he bowled very well in these game regardless, especially in the super test, the fact that he did that shows the he is bowling well since if he doesn't pick up top order wickets he is very effecient at cleanig up the tail, but if he is bowling poorly he wont even do that.

He didn't really bowl well in any of those 3 games (nor in the SA SCG one where he got 3 wickets when the slog was on), certainly not in the Super Test.

Compare the way Langer played in SRI 99 & IND 2001 to how he played in SRI & IND 2004 if you say the games you would realise that he played them much better. The 178 in colombo highlighted his improvements since i'm very sure that in SRI 99 & IND 2001 he didn't have the capability to play such an innings againts quality spinners on turning tracks in such a pressure situation.

One innings doesn't really highlight much.
He's a better player of spin now than he was then, but he's still not especially good.

I'm not taking it for granted, i'm judging him overall, he has gotten hit and has come back strong with few side effects. I just think he is one of those blokes that even though it should affect most if you are hit as often as i guess he has over his cricketing career, that JL is one of the few blokes that it wouldn't affect as much.

And I think pretty much no-one can simply keep on not being affected.

Well that only happend once in test this summer, which was on the 1st afternoon in adelaide when he had the 2nd new ball when Lara attacked him and he he didn't lose it completely. He tested Lara and it was just the brilliance of Lara that enabled him to combat Lee.

The South Africans are a defensive team and in none of the 6 test did any of them try to attack Lee.

Err, I hardly see that any of the South African batsmen other than Kallis are defensive players.