[James90]

Originally Posted by thierry henry

I suppose I really just see the "abortion" issue as being intrinsically linked to the "sex" issue. Stating the obvious perhaps, but I guess what I'm saying is, for me it doesn't come down to figuring out at what point a baby becomes viable or human, or when it feels pain, or whatever. The point is just that I find it incredibly perverse that we as a society, in a very broad way (impacting on social policy and attitudes etc in a massive way), have gone with "have sex with whoever and abort the kid if you don't want it" over "if you have sex you might make a baby, so you probably shouldn't have sex unless you're prepared for the baby".

It's not actually that I think that in any particular case Person A should be forced not to abort her baby. It's incredibly difficult to weigh up the "badness" of "the birth of an unwanted human" Vs the "badness" of "a baby being killed, although it wasn't actually born yet, so was it actually killed? I dunno".

I mean, just recently a female friend of mine had an abortion. She is an unemployed single mother with 2 kids who is, herself, quite anti-abortion. It was clear to me that, with no partner, 2 young kids and no real income, a 3rd child would've been pretty much a disaster. Instinctively I understood her decision. It's not like I'm heartless or anything.

It just strikes me as so obvious that sex between two people who are not prepared for the possibility that they might create a human being should be vehemently discouraged. I mean, what could be more obvious? There seems a pretty massive chasm to me between the relative significance of getting laid and the relative significance of creating unwanted human life and then killing it off in the womb. I see it more as a public/social policy/educational issue where it just boggles my mind that notions like "sexual freedom" are privileged over "sex makes babies".

While I have no idea how to influence the masses, I do feel that in theory people should be smart enough to absorb the message that sex makes babies, babies are a big deal, and therefore it never makes sense to have sex unless you're prepared for said babies. Governments and relevant agencies etc should be pushing this message. It's just...did I use the word obvious yet?

DWTA.

I find it hard to believe that people are complacent enough that they'll have unsafe sex just to go through the traumatic and invasive experience of having a procedure that will cost several hundreds of dollars and stigmatise them for the rest of their life. And I don't think it's ever an easy decision to make. Despite my partner and I both being pro-choice, if an unwanted pregnancy were to occur there would still be part of me that would have to grapple with the definition of what a human life is. We don't want that to happen so we're not going to take any chances.

I also don't believe that the availability of abortion has an adverse affect on unwanted pregnancies. In fact the countries with the fewest teenage pregnancies (including those aborted) are the countries with most liberal abortion laws (Holland, Spain, Denmark, Sweden etc). This is more of result of high education standards and greater social responsibility.

The rate of unwanted pregnancies is dropping, not because women are slowly getting the right to choose what to do with their own bodies but because the information about pregnancy and the availability of contraception are increasing. So I absolutely agree with your priority to create greater awareness around safe sex.

However, at the end of the day, people have sex because they enjoy it. It's a natural human desire and can't be surpressed. Funnily enough, women have sexual desires that can and should be separated from merely providing a womb. And I think views which suggest that sexual freedom is a bad thing are quite damaging.

Also, just because a lot of people think the same thing doesn't prevent that view from being controversial.

My two cents.