Group C - France, Australia, Peru, Denmark

[sledger]

I miss the Berti Vogts days of Scottish football. They truly were the golden years of schadenfreude.

 

[Ausage]

But wouldn't.

I mean, we have won one so...

 

[auditor]

Kazan and Samara are nearby. No need to fly the team of Australia

 

[Furball]

I miss the Berti Vogts days of Scottish football. They truly were the golden years of schadenfreude.

Would kill to have those days back.

 

[sledger]

Would kill to have those days back.

Haha really? I mean, they were super entertaining for everyone who wasn't Scottish, but I remember all the Scots crowing that it was the absolute nadir of Scottish football.

 

[S.Kennedy]

Did that include the Faroe Islands match which has become something of a running joke?

 

[Furball]

Haha really? I mean, they were super entertaining for everyone who wasn't Scottish, but I remember all the Scots crowing that it was the absolute nadir of Scottish football.

It felt like the nadir, but we had no idea how bad things would get.

The Vogts era was when we first stopped qualifying for major tournaments. Add in the Faroe Islands debacle (which might have been his first competitive match in charge) and he was fighting a losing battle from the very beginning.

We still had respectable results, particularly at home under him - 1-1 draw against Germany and beating the Netherlands 1-0 at home seems unimaginable now (we'll gloss over the 6-0 scudding we got in Amsterdam in the return game). Re-run the Vogts era now and we'd be purring about the improvement in our fortunes.

 

[sledger]

Fair dos. I hadn't realised things had got so much worse since tbh. Just kind of seems like more of the same, as an outsider looking in.

 

[Uppercut]

When you think about it it’s incredible how bad Scotland have got. Who’s the best Scottish player of the last 15 years? Darren Fletcher?

 

[sledger]

Probably Barry Ferguson I guess.

Scott Brown maybe.

Shaun Maloney and James McFadeden were good for a bit...

But yeah, the fact that they are the best I can think of is pretty dire.

 

[Furball]

When you think about it it’s incredible how bad Scotland have got. Who’s the best Scottish player of the last 15 years? Darren Fletcher?

Barry Ferguson by a country mile.

Even then, 15 years ago only catches the end of his peak. Playing the 2nd half of 2002/03 injured and then smashing his kneecap at Newcastle changed him, he was never quite the same player afterwards.

 

[Furball]

Fair dos. I hadn't realised things had got so much worse since tbh. Just kind of seems like more of the same, as an outsider looking in.

It's more of the same in terms of not qualifying for things. We still came close in the early 00s though. The 2008 Euro qualifying heartbreak against Italy aside, I can't even remember the last time we made a playoff or came close to qualifying.

We couldn't qualify for a 24 team Euros despite taking 4 points from the Republic and drawing twice with Poland (one of which was your classic Scottish snatch draw/defeat from the jaws of victory, we lost a last minute equaliser at Hampden against Poland). **** knows why Strachan was allowed to survive that. Every other campaign gets to the last couple of games and for us it's 'well we can still make the playoffs if *insert exceptionally unlikely sequence of events* happens.' Those events don't go our way and we lose our last game anyway.

It's why I got so unbelievably emotional when Northern Ireland got their 2nd against Ukraine at Euro 2016. The extent to which actually took me by surprise but it' s been so long since I've been able to watch a finals tournament where I've had an emotional connection to one of the participants.

When it comes to football, as Renton noted in Trainspotting, it's ****e being Scottish.

 

[BoyBrumby]

I'm sure there's been acres of newsprint dedicated to the reasons for the decline in Scottish football, but it is still pretty staggering, really. When I were a lad practically every top flight team was stuffed with tartan talent. Chaps like Andy Gray (who was a top old school centre forward, whatever one's opinion of his opinions is) and Alan Hansen (who set the mode for cultured centre halves & ditto re opinions) barely played for the national team, such was the embarrassment of riches available.

Yer Sweaties invariably went out in the group stages (usually on goal difference), but they were at least there.

 

[Expo]

France is the most favourite team to win the world cup. The result of their last match against USA before world cup is 1-1. USA earned an impressive draw against France. Mbappe scores for France and Green scores for USA.

 

[Burgey]

Ok

 

[Tangles]

A good result for the USA kids who played but hard to read to much into that France display. The defender who's mistake led to the goal may lose his spot though. Lloris badly beaten at the near post also.

 

[sledger]

A good result for the USA kids who played but hard to read to much into that France display. The defender who's mistake led to the goal may lose his spot though. Lloris badly beaten at the near post also.

Not really. He was beaten by a good effort. The fact that it was on his near post is neither here nor there.

 

[Uppercut]

I thought it was bad at first but it sort of combined all of the things that make difficult saves look easy. Hit first-time unexpectedly, he's unsighted, slight deflection off the inside of the defender's leg and it bounces right in front of him.

 

[sledger]

Yeah, I think we've been over it before, but the idea that goalkeepers being beaten at their near post automatically means they have made a gaffe is one of those pieces of conventional footballing wisdom that is actually total bollocks.

 

[Uppercut]

Yeah, I think we've been over it before, but the idea that goalkeepers being beaten at their near post automatically means they have made a gaffe is one of those pieces of conventional footballing wisdom that is actually total bollocks.

It used to annoy me especially because another piece of conventional wisdom is "always shoot across the goalkeeper". So the goalkeeper should always cover the place where the striker should never shoot. The former doesn't seem to be around so much anymore. Maybe because Andy Gray was the one pushing it hardest.

I think a lot of old-school footballing wisdom is more about creating structures in which blame can easily be apportioned than it is about playing winning football. Man-marking on corners is the obvious example, but it also applied to the "keeper's side and wall's side" on direct free kicks, "just getting rid of it" at the back, and the keeper covering his near post. Gary Neville's commentary has this tic really badly. When he's not sure which player to blame he blames the system and advocates an alternative in which he could easily find a player to blame.