Page 3 of 4 FirstFirst 1234 LastLast
Results 31 to 45 of 59
Like Tree2Likes

Thread: Design your own World Cup

  1. #31
    Evil Scotsman Furball's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    506
    Posts
    28,989
    Quote Originally Posted by FaaipDeOiad View Post
    Yeah to be fair I don't know how many more places should go to Europe. My main hesitation with giving more spots to North/Central America is that I think the quality of the remaining teams there would be poor, Honduras didn't offer much to this tournament and the next team would be Panama I guess? Hard to see them improving the Cup much. At least you know that Europe has more competitive teams. But those spots could go to Africa or Asia too.

    Either way I don't think it's a big deal. I think it'll still be a while before we see a tournament winner that isn't from South America or Europe but the gap in quality between the rest of the world and the second tier nations from those regions has clearly shrunk significantly. Last two World Cups have had less than 50% representation from European teams in the last 16, and this tournament hasn't really had any teams that just look horribly out of their depth. Worst performers were probably Honduras, maybe Cameroon or South Korea, and aside from Cameroon's effort against Croatia they were all consistently competitive. If it's a close enough thing I think getting more representation from other parts of the world would add more to the tournament than having Serbia qualify or whatever. Maybe 13-15 is enough.
    I'm going to throw it out there that nobody on this forum will ever see a World Cup that is won by a team outwith Europe or South America.

  2. #32
    Hall of Fame Member Pothas's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Location
    Brum
    Posts
    15,510
    You may be right but I doubt it.

    USA or Japan could do it in the next 40 years.

  3. #33
    Evil Scotsman Furball's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    506
    Posts
    28,989
    In true Richard fashion I will eat my computer or whatever I use to post on CW if that happens.

  4. #34
    International Coach
    Join Date
    Nov 2003
    Location
    UK
    Posts
    13,647
    Yeah I would imagine Panama are the next in line from Central America. The thing is everyone always talks in terms of "adding something to the tournament" or similar, particularly pundits on TV, which seems to be slightly missing the point. Obviously whoever you add isn't going to seriously challenge to win the thing because they're not there already. That doesn't necessarily mean they're not in the best 32 teams (or whatever number you want to make it) though. If we were picking purely the best 32 teams there would probably be another side from Central America and certainly another couple from South America without question, at the expense of Asia in particular and then possibly Europe. I'm not sure that would be best for the long term health of the sport and the competition though.

    EDIT: This is based purely on the current abilities of the sides in question as opposed to their long term potential.

    EDIT 2: Actually the weaker African teams are worse than the weaker European teams also.
    Last edited by Tom Halsey; 28-06-2014 at 05:05 PM.
    MSN - tomhalsey123@hotmail.com

    Manchester United FC: 20 Times

    R.I.P. Sledger's Signature, 2004-2008


  5. #35
    Hall of Fame Member FaaipDeOiad's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Location
    Australia
    Posts
    19,957
    I don't really think it matters if no team from outside Europe or South America ever win the World Cup to be honest. Switzerland are never going to win the world cup either, but they are competitive. Costa Rica won't win it either but you can't deny they've made a significant contribution to this world cup that justifies their inclusion. The issue is more that if you already have more than a dozen teams from Europe, adding a 5th team from Asia or whatever is going to do more to promote and grow the sport throughout the world and make the tournament a more inclusive spectacle than adding another team from Europe. If there is a significant gap in class between the nations or some of the countries excluded from Europe were highly competitive and clearly deserving of inclusion you'd have to account for that, but if you're adding more sides and deciding if Iceland or Egypt would add more to the tournament, better worldwide representation is a significant factor. There are already regional tournaments after all.

    It's just a balance because obviously your Germany vs Saudi Arabia type games don't help much, or if they do help football in Saudi Arabia the cost in the quality of the event might not be worth it. But that clearly hasn't been the case at this World Cup where European teams have been far from dominant.
    It's cold on the outside they say
    But the cold leaves you clear while the heat leaves a haze

  6. #36
    Hall of Fame Member Pothas's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Location
    Brum
    Posts
    15,510
    If anyone deserves another spot it is South America.

    Ecuador only there because of the whole altitude thing but if that couple of minutes at the end of the Switzerland had gone the other way then they would have all reached the second round. Obviously playing in South America is an advantage but it was a similar story in South Africa.

  7. #37
    International Coach
    Join Date
    Nov 2003
    Location
    UK
    Posts
    13,647
    Tbh I think you could make an OK argument that every single South American country is one of the best 32 in the world. For sure if we were doing it purely on current ability South America would get more places.

  8. #38
    Hall of Fame Member FaaipDeOiad's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Location
    Australia
    Posts
    19,957
    On merit South America definitely warrants more spots but I'd say the same thing applies as with Europe's claim. This tournament we're missing Peru, Bolivia, Venezuela and Paraguay, who I don't think would really add that much more than an African side or whatever, though it being a South American hosted cup does change that a little. I think around 6 is fine, so maybe an extra spot for Cups not hosted in South America, but more than that would make the qualification process feel like a bit of a waste of time.

  9. #39
    Hall of Fame Member Pothas's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Location
    Brum
    Posts
    15,510
    Yeah I think the current structure is fine, although I think South America should keep the numbers they got in this tournament.

  10. #40
    Spanish_Vicente sledger's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2004
    Location
    Elm, he do brood. And Oak, he do hate. But the Willow-man goes walking, If you stays out late.
    Posts
    40,448
    I really hope a team from outside Europe or South America wins it sooner rather than later, but I can't for the life of me see it happening at any point in the immediate future. Teams from Africa, in particular, continue to be particularly disappointing. Even those which show up and don't either look like they don't give a crap (Cameroon) or under-perform/choke really badly (Ivory Coast) never look like they're actually going to do anything. Ghana for instance had their flash in the pan moments, but it was always pretty clear they weren't really going anywhere; Nigeria have been pretty fun to watch, but I suspect their departure is imminent; Algeria have done well but were perhaps fortunate to be placed in a group with opposition who performed really badly.

    Problem is, for me, that this sort of thing has been happening for as long as I can remember. Cameroon are never not involved in some sort of scandal, Ivory Coast have repeatedly not performed, Ghana have done well on the whole but have arguably underperformed given the players at their disposal, Nigeria were emerging as dark horses/reasonable contenders about 20 years ago but until recently seemed to have spent all the time since the mid/late nineties regressing. Then we've had teams like Togo and Angola that were just hopelessly out of their depth.

    I'm not suggesting Africa should have it's number of places docked, but on the whole I think it's safe to say that African teams at the World Cup have on the whole been pretty disappointing over the last 20 years. Given the amount of great players that have come out of Africa in that time, it's kind of weird that throughout that period never has an African team come into a tournament and really been expected to do anything. It's not that I'd even necessarily expect them to be mooted as favourites, but when was the last time anyone said "oooh, you better watch out for [AFRICAN TEAM] this year, I think they could go quite far"?

  11. #41
    Cricket Web: All-Time Legend NUFAN's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    Marrickville
    Posts
    22,107
    Some of the European nations such as England are just lucky that they have countries in their confederation performing if you are going to justify success that way Sledger. You could just as easily replace the word Ivory Coast with England in the sentence above. Its impossible to mount a case than South America and Europe are not the stronger areas, but it is unfair to just define how successful the other confederations are purely on winning the whole thing. For instance, North/Central America deserve some praise. Asia does not deserve any, but I'm going to say that Africa were not horrible. it was only Cameroon.

    Just realized in my 6am not having slept post, I said all 4 teams had qualified, obviously Honduras didn't..

  12. #42
    Spanish_Vicente sledger's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2004
    Location
    Elm, he do brood. And Oak, he do hate. But the Willow-man goes walking, If you stays out late.
    Posts
    40,448
    Quote Originally Posted by NUFAN View Post
    Some of the European nations such as England are just lucky that they have countries in their confederation performing if you are going to justify success that way Sledger. You could just as easily replace the word Ivory Coast with England in the sentence above. Its impossible to mount a case than South America and Europe are not the stronger areas, but it is unfair to just define how successful the other confederations are purely on winning the whole thing. For instance, North/Central America deserve some praise. Asia does not deserve any, but I'm going to say that Africa were not horrible. it was only Cameroon.

    Just realized in my 6am not having slept post, I said all 4 teams had qualified, obviously Honduras didn't..
    I'm not judging an entire confederation on whether they win the thing, I explicitly said this.

    I made my judgement on what African teams have achieved at World Cups in the last twenty years, which is basically nothing. I'm of course aware that England as a team have not done particularly well, but that is totally irrelevant to the point I was making (i.e. that African teams on the whole have not really gone on to achieve what was hoped of them, and on the whole have been pretty disappointing).
    Last edited by sledger; 28-06-2014 at 06:18 PM.

  13. #43
    The Wheel is Forever silentstriker's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    39,168
    Quote Originally Posted by sledger View Post
    I'm not judging an entire confederation on whether they win the thing, I explicitly said this.

    I made my judgement on what African teams have achieved at World Cups in the last twenty years, which is basically nothing. I'm of course aware that England as a team have not done particularly well, but that is totally irrelevant to the point I was making (i.e. that African teams on the whole have not really gone on to achieve what was hoped of them, and on the whole have been pretty disappointing).
    Couldn't you argue that the only difference is that England just gets hyped more and doesn't perform while the African teams don't get hyped and don't perform?
    Quote Originally Posted by KungFu_Kallis View Post
    Peter Siddle top scores in both innings....... Matthew Wade gets out twice in one ball
    "The future light cone of the next Indian fast bowler is exactly the same as the past light cone of the previous one"
    -My beliefs summarized in words much more eloquent than I could come up with

    How the Universe came from nothing

  14. #44
    Cricketer Of The Year watson's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Location
    Sydney
    Posts
    9,467
    Quote Originally Posted by NUFAN View Post
    Some of the European nations such as England are just lucky that they have countries in their confederation performing if you are going to justify success that way Sledger. You could just as easily replace the word Ivory Coast with England in the sentence above. Its impossible to mount a case than South America and Europe are not the stronger areas, but it is unfair to just define how successful the other confederations are purely on winning the whole thing. For instance, North/Central America deserve some praise. Asia does not deserve any, but I'm going to say that Africa were not horrible. it was only Cameroon.

    Just realized in my 6am not having slept post, I said all 4 teams had qualified, obviously Honduras didn't..
    You can't really compare England with African nations like the Ivory Coast because England normally do reasonably well in World Cup tournaments. I know that England didn't make it out of the Group Stage this year, but that's the first time since 1958. The norm is that England make the Quarterfinals or better, and this they've done on no less than 8 occasions.

    The fact is, when you get down to the last 4 or even 8 teams in a World Cup it becomes a bit of a lottery because the teams are so close. Generally, an unfortunate injury, stupid referee decisions, or home-crowd support are all that separate the winner from the losers.
    1. Len Hutton 2. Jack Hobbs 3. Walter Hammond 4. Peter May 5. Ken Barrington 6. Denis Compton 7. Alan Knott 8. Hedley Verity 9. John Snow 10. Fred Trueman 11. Sydney Barnes

  15. #45
    Cricket Web: All-Time Legend NUFAN's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    Marrickville
    Posts
    22,107
    Quote Originally Posted by watson View Post
    You can't really compare England with African nations like the Ivory Coast because England normally do reasonably well in World Cup tournaments. I know that England didn't make it out of the Group Stage this year, but that's the first time since 1958. The norm is that England make the Quarterfinals or better, and this they've done on no less than 8 occasions.

    The fact is, when you get down to the last 4 or even 8 teams in a World Cup it becomes a bit of a lottery because the teams are so close. Generally, an unfortunate injury, stupid referee decisions, or home-crowd support are all that separate the winner from the losers.
    In the World Cup I am designing, I CAN COMPARE WHOEVER I WANT. :P But yeah, fair call - I guess I made my comment as some of the comments were talking about having to win the whole thing to get credit, but Sledger has already explained its not what he meant. I just don't think Africa have been that bad (apart from Cameroon) and for a confederation so large, the number of countries they get at the Cup is about right IMO.

Page 3 of 4 FirstFirst 1234 LastLast


Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Similar Threads

  1. New Design!
    By James in forum Cricket Web Forum Announcements
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 18-09-2003, 09:22 PM
  2. New Design
    By Rik in forum Site Discussion
    Replies: 31
    Last Post: 23-12-2002, 07:55 AM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •